SE: Savage Difficulty Spike and PF Toxicity Shows we need Hard Raids

[Volgia]

Some of the things described by OP where people lie about their prog point, where people are shamed for their lack of skill, this isn't a savage content issue, this is a socialization issue and it's just up to the individual to get better at the game and to get better at being social.

People who want savage content but easier are just lazy. Learn your rotation, learn the mechanics and learn to coordinate with the players you meet.

[Gwenkatsu]

this isn't a savage content issue, this is a socialization issue and it's just up to the individual to get better at the game and to get better at being social.

I wholeheartedly agree. All these excellent players that cannot progress since they're constantly lied at in savage PF groups just need to get better at being social. Find some like minded players on their skill level, and never have any problems with PF groups. Getting matched with bad players? Social skill issue, just git gud.

[Mawlzy]

I wholeheartedly agree. All these excellent players that cannot progress since they're constantly lied at in savage PF groups just need to get better at being social. Find some like minded players on their skill level, and never have any problems with PF groups. Getting matched with bad players? Social skill issue, just git gud.

Oh that's beautiful. And applies to multiple areas of the game, not to mention life.

[Mawlzy]

Some of the things described by OP where people lie about their prog point, where people are shamed for their lack of skill, this isn't a savage content issue, this is a socialization issue and it's just up to the individual to get better at the game and to get better at being social.

People who want savage content but easier are just lazy. Learn your rotation, learn the mechanics and learn to coordinate with the players you meet.

So human beings have no intrinsic skill cap when it comes to video games, and everyone can do anything? The problem is laziness?

Then why do savage raiders even bother?

[localareanetwork]

I would say the tier's difficulty isn't a spike, rather a return to normalcy because the last tier was a complete joke

[Voryn]

Problems can be caused by either way as skill issues or attitude issues. Although IMO for a skill issue to be a major problem it requires an attitude issue as well.

Are you not performing as consistently as others in the party you’re in, and holding them back from either reaching the prog point or from clearing? Then you should step away and come back another time after some practice, or some study, or even just a break if that’s what you need. Continuing to troll the party or getting mad at others is an attitude issue. This can happen even with no dps checks.

Is there someone in your party underperforming? Ideally they’d be able to realize it and understand what they need to do. But also as a player you should try able to recognize the difference between a troll and a person that’s just making “normal” mistakes. Like recognizing that certain mechanics can be error prone for whatever reason, and also actually thinking about what mistakes people are making. Getting upset with them isn’t really justified unless the person is actively being a troll (and even then, some will say to just move on when getting trolled rather than getting mad). All this can also happen with no dps checks.

Either way, you can’t design a game in a way where attitude issues don’t matter unless you take away the things someone can possibly get upset about. But if the game doesn’t ask people to play properly then the difficulty is gone. Like how a test at school can’t be hard if you don’t need to get the questions right.

So human beings have no intrinsic skill cap when it comes to video games, and everyone can do anything? The problem is laziness?

Humans obviously have caps to things like a reaction times and working memory capacity, but are there specific things this game tests in a way that isn’t learnable by almost anyone? Like it doesn’t require us to react to things in under a second unless we’re doing PvP or have comically bad ping.

[Mawlzy]

Humans obviously have caps to things like a reaction times and working memory capacity, but are there specific things this game tests in a way that isn’t learnable by almost anyone? Like it doesn’t require us to react to things in under a second unless we’re doing PvP or have comically bad ping.

Ah now there's an interesting thing. I am quite good at PvP in this game, but struggle with PvE.

I'm open to the possibility it's an attitude problem, driven by the fact I find PvE in this game tedious.

[AmiableApkallu]

Ah now there's an interesting thing. I am quite good at PvP in this game, but struggle with PvE.

I'm open to the possibility it's an attitude problem, driven by the fact I find PvE in this game tedious.

PvE is scripted and predictable. PvP is unscripted and subject to human whims.

It is not an "attitude problem" to find one mode more enjoyable than the other, or to be better at one mode than the other. The two modes might as well be different games as far as FFXIV is concerned.

[Mawlzy]

PvE is scripted and predictable. PvP is unscripted and subject to human whims.

It is not an "attitude problem" to find one mode more enjoyable than the other, or to be better at one mode than the other. The two modes might as well be different games as far as FFXIV is concerned.

I agree, just given the options I was offered it felt better than "lazy."

More generally, whenever the topic of the low engagement with Savage comes up, the minority who enjoy it in this game blame the players in various different ways. This strikes me as strange, since the players don't design the PvE that most (NA/EU) dislike, based on engagement.

[Volgia]

So human beings have no intrinsic skill cap when it comes to video games, and everyone can do anything? The problem is laziness?

Then why do savage raiders even bother?

You and I had this argument before, barring disability there's no "intrinsic" ability to play savage, if you can do normal, you can do savage, and I've linked you resources on how to get started. You learn where to go, you learn your rotation while you learn where to go and you do it. But you know ,it's OK to not like it, it's ok to do OTHER things.

I have a problem with people who don't like savage, come here and ask for the same mechanics but with everything watered down so they can do them (this is what NORMALS are for). Then why do this type of content at all?