People don’t realize how easy it is to get into raiding in this game

[Fandele]

I dipped my toe into current savage for the first time with DT. I joined a static through PF for M1S back in October. We spent about 6 weeks (just 1-2 hours per week) before we beat it. There was some frustration, but it was ok, overall. Two weeks into M2S, people started getting downright annoyed, and it just wasn't fun anymore. And I'm just like "Why am I logging in to do this if I'm not enjoying it?"
I've messed around with extremes a bit with FC mates, but we don't keep going back if we don't enjoy it, and nobody gets upset with each other. Having mount #245 just isn't worth the aggravation.

[Kohashi]

I'm actually worried about that, because SE might make it as an excuse to start making all the boss fights even more complex. But then why they even bother with easy content anymore. Maybe they could just make every dungeon as dificult as criterion! Would surely help to weed out all noobs like me from this game!

What you feel is what the vast majority felt when they started, including me. The solution is to keep on pushing and going at it. The more you do something, the easier it becomes. If you like pushing your boundaries and getting out of your comfort zone, this is the way to do it.

Also, take what most people here type in the forums with a grain of salt. Most act tough and like they've got everything figured out and everything is easy, but if you pull up their data, it paints a completely different picture of their actual skill level..

[Miohazuki]

Mao has similar feelings as whats Fufuka and Gwenkatsu has. Boss fights, ALL boss fights (in trials, dungeons and raids), have been gettings faster and faster ever since ShB. EW was very hard on Mao. DT was nightmare for Mao. Mao is old and has Parkinson's Disease. Mao can not keep ups with ever increasing speed of boss fights. Is why Mao nopes out of boss fights and thens decided to nopes out of game. Game has changed too much for Mao to even be able to play. Mao sad....

Mao adds addendum: Mao findings dungeons, delves and raids in WoW to be very doable and much funs. Mao happys agains!

Your talking reminds me of a person on wow eu forums .they talk same like u .
Sample of their talk : https://eu.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...lp-boat/555083

[Jeeqbit]

starting from the Seat of Sacrifice I feel SE wen't nuts. This fights is the worst EX trial of all time

Don't agree with that. It's great. Made actual use of our kits like interrupts for once, and the last phase being different every time made it more interesting than most fights. The only really hard bit once it was on farm was quintuplecast and for that you could just look away and remember like 2 of them that turning away didn't account for. Would be rough for sprouts, but it is high-end content.

some of the worst are meteors from Zeromus. What's wrong with it? It's all random, there are no clear positions where each player must go

Untrue really. There were like 2 different ways it could go where you were either placing deeply in near middle or right at the edge. Also, you were placing either first or second. Also, tethers could come from one side or the other. You see it enough times, and you've seen all the combinations that can happen.

I think what made it harder was the PF strats for it did not swap side when your tether was on a different side, which made the tether harder to break with some combinations. But again, sometimes you luck out with good RNG and that is why randomization is good for players in your boat.

random aoe which shows for a milisecond before hitting, gl trying to figure this stuff.

Obviously if it appears for a millisecond there is a way that you tell that it will in advance that has been missed. Figuring out is part of the idea. Standing behind a purple line in dungeons was originally meant to let you discuss strategies and figure out mechanics before pulling, before they made dungeons more intuitive with telegraph markers.

[Merrigan]

Whining? Perhaps. But I just wanted to share my own thoughs and experience of raiding, to show that from my point of view the statement of this topic is false (at least partialy). Also, I haven't done Sphene ex and no longer have any desire to do any content that is harder than normal raids or trials (with an exception of unsync), as it's just not worth it. Also, from what I understand, most players actually somehow get satisfaction just from doing difficult content itself and while I can onjoi it too for some extent, but more often than not this content tends to be so overtuned that it only leads up to frustration and I end up hating it, so why even bother.

A quick reminder: this is a game. If the content frustrates you... It's OK not to do it. HL content has never been for everyone, in the sense that you have to like the challenge and have the time.

Another thing: this is a forum. And if there's one thing that's true of all MMORPGs, even the ones we're bent on comparing when they're radically different from each other... It's that the forums are always full of people who seem to be pros. Some of them are actually good; a lot of them exaggerate a bit, in my experience, because between what they say and the moment you start checking out what's going on behind the scenes there's... A gap.

[Jeeqbit]

What you feel is what the vast majority felt when they started, including me. The solution is to keep on pushing and going at it. The more you do something, the easier it becomes.

Really this. You can do a lot of this content and it can feel really hard and even harder to do your rotation while doing it, but fast forward 500 pulls later you will be doing both the mechanics and the rotation while half asleep because you know all possible combinations, have seen them play out hundreds of times, and can relax while doing it. Because you've seen it play out so much, you can identify patterns and mechanics out of the mere corner of your eye glancing one part of the mechanic.

For example, why don't we take EX4. It showcases 4 things to you at the start. But when you've done it enough, you don't need to look at 4 things. Depending on the strat, you can reduce it to just:

Swap strat: since it's 1221 or 1122, you can just see what two of them are and you know which pattern it is. You do not need to look at the boss for the rest because seeing x22x or x12x or xx22 or xx21 is enough to know which pattern it is.

Supp first: see if first one is in or out, that's it. Ignore rest. Do first in/out > hitbox > opposite > hitbox.

It becomes so braindead whichever strat you're using, once you're used to it. But it takes time to get used to it, and it wouldn't be high-end content if it didn't.

[CaptainLagbeard]

I don't like starting PFs myself, and there can be difficulties finding PFs for practice groups doing fights from the start and I do consider other people enough that I don't just try to join a group trying to beat Enrage with just a guide and no real experience on the fight.

And real life has a bad tendency of getting in the way of finding time to get started on grinding fights, making thing somewhat harder...

[Kohashi]

Your talking reminds me of a person on wow eu forums .they talk same like u .
Sample of their talk : https://eu.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...lp-boat/555083

They got told to use DeepL or translate, hahaha WoW forums didn't disappoint on delivering roasts, and I am here for it.

[CCheshire]

The ridiculous amount of time I wasted in PF last tier is why I skipped this one, and with the loot system being the way it is even if you manage to finish the fight you probably walk out of there with nothing.

Granted this is a problem exclusive to party finder. You do not have this amount of wasted time in a static of people with similar mindsets and the loot system works fine when you have an agreed upon plan on who gets what.
But put the same system into an environment where people lie about their experience, have zero commitment to the party, sometimes don't even actually want learn and always roll need on everything because they can...and the entire thing falls apart.


Many people would probably disagree but I actually think the old loot system was better for PF.

For the people who weren't here at the time. Back in ye olden days when you opened the chest it would just drop an item specific to that turn for any role. Now you can see the obvious issue with that, you could have a pair of scouting boots drop with no ninja even in the party. Clearly annoying for statics, especially annoying for people on the world first race who need every dps advantage they can get.
But this also meant that when the item for your job finally dropped you only had to roll against maybe 1 other player in the party, nobody who wasn't on the role corresponding to the piece of gear could roll need on it.

With the new coffer system you always have to roll against 7 other people in party finder, even if they already have that piece of gear on their main job, because nothing prevents them from rolling need for their alts.
And that leads to another issue, not getting gear means you eventually get locked out of reclear parties because ilvl requirements get higher the longer a raid tier goes on. Of course not all parties follow that principle but it certainly limits your options for reclears.

Although I don't do Savage I don't mind the offers being FFA vs how AR only drops random gear for 1 job sometimes for no one in the party. I get it I've gotten low rolls more often than not for farming parties.

Yeah I didn't know what I expected from PF, even old DT extremes but I didn't know I'd wait for hours even for farming totems. I figured this is the life of players who have unpredictable schedules or non-static raiders.

[Kohashi]

idk if you watched that recent crash out drama that xeno was covering, but even he said you can’t judge people completely based on logs.
Last night I progged an hour of cloud of darkness chaotic and there were 2 raider in there not talking at all, stood in mechanics just to parse. Yea, one has 99 logs but I would never want to play with him again. If I want to sit there and parse I’d only do it in a group where the healers are ok with it and it’s not fresh Prog.

Of course, but I wasn't even talking about logs exclusively, but rather a combination of it + analysis. That + logs can provide at least a starting point.

As for those people, there are risks and damage that are worth taking in the context where they can be easily mitigated/healed and will not cause a party wipe.

If they stay in bad and result in a death or wiping out the party, that's just being stupid and bad at greeding.