People don’t realize how easy it is to get into raiding in this game

[CCheshire]

I'm fine with the entire guide reading and watching process of raiding, but what dragged me down would be the other parts like not having static or active MMO friends into raiding, so I've spent several hours every day in PF waiting for a full group that won't disband in 3 pulls for what feels like a entire month's worth of waiting.

[Absurdity]

I'm fine with the entire guide reading and watching process of raiding, but what dragged me down would be the other parts like not having static or active MMO friends into raiding, so I've spent several hours every day in PF waiting for a full group that won't disband in 3 pulls for what feels like a entire month's worth of waiting.

The ridiculous amount of time I wasted in PF last tier is why I skipped this one, and with the loot system being the way it is even if you manage to finish the fight you probably walk out of there with nothing.

Granted this is a problem exclusive to party finder. You do not have this amount of wasted time in a static of people with similar mindsets and the loot system works fine when you have an agreed upon plan on who gets what.
But put the same system into an environment where people lie about their experience, have zero commitment to the party, sometimes don't even actually want learn and always roll need on everything because they can...and the entire thing falls apart.


Many people would probably disagree but I actually think the old loot system was better for PF.

For the people who weren't here at the time. Back in ye olden days when you opened the chest it would just drop an item specific to that turn for any role. Now you can see the obvious issue with that, you could have a pair of scouting boots drop with no ninja even in the party. Clearly annoying for statics, especially annoying for people on the world first race who need every dps advantage they can get.
But this also meant that when the item for your job finally dropped you only had to roll against maybe 1 other player in the party, nobody who wasn't on the role corresponding to the piece of gear could roll need on it.

With the new coffer system you always have to roll against 7 other people in party finder, even if they already have that piece of gear on their main job, because nothing prevents them from rolling need for their alts.
And that leads to another issue, not getting gear means you eventually get locked out of reclear parties because ilvl requirements get higher the longer a raid tier goes on. Of course not all parties follow that principle but it certainly limits your options for reclears.

[Absurdity]

Wait, wait, wait...

They let ANYONE roll need in higher-end content, even if they have the piece? Because even normal-ass alliance raids forbid need-rolling on off-role gear and will buzz you about having it already, and virtually nobody uses that stuff except for glam most of the time... whereas Savage and such that's like, isn't it BiS for several patches at a time?

How in the... please tell me I just read this wrong.

Nope, you read that absolutely right.
Because savage doesn't drop gear pieces anymore, it drops item slot coffers.

So let's say you clear M5S, the first savage fight this tier, and it drops an earring coffer, two ring coffers and a necklace coffer.
Because those coffers simply give you an item for the role you open them with, they are not locked to any specific role or job, which in turn means that everyone has to be able to roll need on it. Every. Single. Time.

This is great for statics, because they usually just shovel all their gear into the dps first to have an easier time beating the enrage timers and then the dps simply pass on the gear they already have next time. Because the members never change you're probably done gearing everyone's main job in maybe 8 weeks, probably sooner depending on what non-coffer weapon drops from the last boss and some rng on the coffer's item slot, then you can use your books to gear alts.

But now you put this system into party finder, where you play with completely different random people who could not give less of a damn about each other beyond clearing the fight, and you have everyone always rolling need on everything, every single week. So you could end up with 8 weeks of clearing the raid and never win a single item, only able to buy a few pieces with the books (the pity system) you get from killing a boss.

[Absurdity]

Good lord, no wonder so many hardcore players come off angry and aggressive while being reluctant to let more players into the content, it's been purposefully set up to make them treat everyone as an enemy instead of an ally, then expects them to cooperate just long enough in a stressful environment to potentially screw over each other.

Pretty much. Add to that the ticking clock of parties usually raising the ilvl requirements to join groups in the first place every week and you will quickly find yourself frustrated over something as benign as the boring loot in this game.

And the pity system with the books sounds about as miserable as the pity system with totems for Extreme.

It's even more miserable, because you can at least farm the extreme totems.

Savage books are limited to one book per turn per week.
With accessories costing 3 turn 1 books, boots, gloves and head costing 4 turn 2 books, chest and pants costing 6 turn 3 books and weapons costing 8 turn 4 books.

So even when you get enough books to buy the item you need you don't really feel good about it, you're more likely to be annoyed that you spent 3-8 weeks getting screwed over.

Oh right, I almost forgot that you also need the items to augment your tomestone gear, which is another thing you could potentially never win, leading to even more books needed to buy them.


Granted I might sound extra harsh here because I literally had to reclear M2S last raid tier for 16 weeks to buy my gloves, helmet and two Surgelight Glaze (to upgrade my tomestone accessories) with pity tokens because I had never won a single drop from that fight up to that point.

[Gurgeh]

Ok I'm going to be rude 'back' now...

Sophia, it's not hard to understand it's just you. You're a moron.
I find Ex's hard. For me clearing an Ex is like how high end players clear and ultimate.
I love progging it.
I love getting to see the whole fight, truly, and clearing it.
But I'm not clearing TOP 100 times in PF for my first 1 weapon drop.
It's not hard to understand.
You understand Ultimates? Then you should understand how I view Exs. It's not theoretical physics.
You must be an idiot.

[Ekymus]

Sorry to be rude but that is only your opinion.
I am a BLM main since early HW and have done raiding on it, even in horrible fights for it like Endsinger or P3S.
While I am probably one of the few who hasn’t that much of a problem with the changes it does play completely different.
The only same thing is the buttons you press but the rest is just a shadow of the former job.
Paradox in ice phase has no meaning, in fire phase it is only there for firestarter and the change to thunder made the job lose one huge part of its planning aspect, not to mention sharpcast being gone.
The entire problem with it right now is that its skills are meaningless because they originate from the design standpoint of the timer itself.
It’s just damage in different potencies and flavors now without any strategy involved and lol triplecast for blizzard is not a gap between skill.
There is no real difference between skill floor and skill ceiling anymore and to be blunt I am tired of casual players who never tried to master that job before coming out now to tell everyone how much better it is or that the changes aren’t such a big thing.
If they hadn’t gutted PCT in the same patch I am sure many would have left this job.
It’s good if you and others like the changes but don’t pretend the job hasn’t gotten a huge rework.

A job shouldn’t only be fun in high end content but everywhere and that is another huge problem with the raids nowadays.
Because job complexity is in the gutter it has become the only form of skill expression which means raiders get all the “fun” mechanics while everyone else is left bored to death.
Raids are just scripted boss fights and the jobs are designed to not get in the way of the encounter design and to make them interesting they get their difficulty increased, get mechanics that were cut for normal mode and called savage.

I mained Black Mage since ARR. I played it through every bit of content that was available. I built my Black Mage for Spell Speed even before Yoshi-P came out and said that's how he build his Black Mage. So while I'm casual, I speak from experience, that's how I can say that you are wrong and that the changes to Black Mage aren't some huge, fundamental change to how the class works. It's a tweak that makes it slightly easier to play. But the ceiling and the floor are still a long ways apart.

But if these changes that allow more people to play and enjoy a job like Black Mage make you feel bad because you now feel less superior to those other players that struggled with it in the past, well, that's on you and I don't feel bad for you even a little bit.

But please, continue to whine about how you feel less superior to others because a job got a quality of life improvement.

[Voidmage]

I mained Black Mage since ARR. I played it through every bit of content that was available. I built my Black Mage for Spell Speed even before Yoshi-P came out and said that's how he build his Black Mage. So while I'm casual, I speak from experience, that's how I can say that you are wrong and that the changes to Black Mage aren't some huge, fundamental change to how the class works. It's a tweak that makes it slightly easier to play. But the ceiling and the floor are still a long ways apart.

But if these changes that allow more people to play and enjoy a job like Black Mage make you feel bad because you now feel less superior to those other players that struggled with it in the past, well, that's on you and I don't feel bad for you even a little bit.

But please, continue to whine about how you feel less superior to others because a job got a quality of life improvement.

Are you unable to give a normal sounding argument?
Maybe if you take a breath and stopped with the childish insults for a second I might be inclined to have a discussion with you.

Go ahead and read some of my other comments elsewhere and you might be able to see that:
A
I don’t mind the changes as much as others and even see some good things in them but with lots of room for improvement.
B
I usually am on the side of the more casual players even when I was still raiding.

But sure. Superiority and all that.

What skill ceiling is there exactly?
The opener? Triple cast in ice phase?
If you think the missing timer, shorter cast times and changes to thunder don’t change the entire BLM feeling just because you still press fire iv I don’t know what to tell you.
Go ahead and believe that.
You yourself said that you are only a casual player of BLM and you try to tell everyone that you know what the mastering of that jobs looks like and how the opinions of those people are wrong?

You are rude to everyone here who doesn’t agree to your points and write your own opinion as fact.
You aren’t worth my time and I am going to ignore you from here on out.
This whole discussion isn’t important enough to me anyway.

[TheInsomniac13]

I mained Black Mage since ARR. I played it through every bit of content that was available. I built my Black Mage for Spell Speed even before Yoshi-P came out and said that's how he build his Black Mage. So while I'm casual, I speak from experience, that's how I can say that you are wrong and that the changes to Black Mage aren't some huge, fundamental change to how the class works. It's a tweak that makes it slightly easier to play. But the ceiling and the floor are still a long ways apart.

But if these changes that allow more people to play and enjoy a job like Black Mage make you feel bad because you now feel less superior to those other players that struggled with it in the past, well, that's on you and I don't feel bad for you even a little bit.

But please, continue to whine about how you feel less superior to others because a job got a quality of life improvement.

I agree with Voidmage your ongoing condensation against anyone who do´s not parrot your worldview makes you look and the point you argue for look like an entiteld asshole. And all I can think of is that Arguing with and Idiot proofs there are two.

Black Mages skill ceiling it´s do´s not exist anymore there is no fail state anymore and because of that a mojarety of the skill it now has are utterly pointlles to be ever used. I can still use Triplecast!... Yes and... what´s the reason for it?... so I have 0.something higher DPS output? Fakt ist that it is not the Gutting of Black Mage which makes me quite this game but the Devs proofing again and again that they readely water down any and all jobs an favor of there sacred Highend Raiding and I will not suffer it anymore.

To the point of it is now more accesible to a bigger audience... well guss what I do not believe in the designe style of makes a thing appeal to everyone... because if you design something for everyone it will speak to no one. Design you think to be liked by the niche groupe that likes this thing and will favore it over everything... Because guss what? If we design everything to speak to the biggest audience then FF 14 8.0 will be an Tabletop game! Because only a few people worldwide posses gaming PCs but everyone has a table at home so every game we should prodice from here on out has to be a Tabletop game or you are not appealing to the biggest audience.

[Kohashi]

I agree that they don't realize it. But I actually think the primary reason, for most people, is anxiety. That anxiety can stem from:
- Being afraid of toxicity, not understanding the difference between different types of parties ie. [Practice] vs [Duty Complete], or not understanding all the raid terminology such as DPS in | Relative | BD | TN | Tank LB3, colors, etc.
- Thinking that they are not good at the game. Sometimes these feelings are incorrect (they are good enough), and other times it's an accurate assessment to say they are not very good yet, but they probably just don't understand a lot of basic things yet.

Anyone that thinks gear is a barrier in this game is a minority, and the recent posts on these forums certainly don't reflect the primary reasons for people avoiding it. There are people who lack gil to buy gear, but those people obviously just returned to the game and don't hardly play it and thus don't accumulate gil, not that they need it because gear drops from the normal raids.

Close enough. Fear of failure is at the root of most issues when it comes to "hard" content. Not everyone has the mental fortitude to do stuff like that, and that's fine.

[Ekymus]

Are you unable to give a normal sounding argument?
Maybe if you take a breath and stopped with the childish insults for a second I might be inclined to have a discussion with you.

Go ahead and read some of my other comments elsewhere and you might be able to see that:
A
I don’t mind the changes as much as others and even see some good things in them but with lots of room for improvement.
B
I usually am on the side of the more casual players even when I was still raiding.

But sure. Superiority and all that.

What skill ceiling is there exactly?
The opener? Triple cast in ice phase?
If you think the missing timer, shorter cast times and changes to thunder don’t change the entire BLM feeling just because you still press fire iv I don’t know what to tell you.
Go ahead and believe that.
You yourself said that you are only a casual player of BLM and you try to tell everyone that you know what the mastering of that jobs looks like and how the opinions of those people are wrong?

You are rude to everyone here who doesn’t agree to your points and write your own opinion as fact.
You aren’t worth my time and I am going to ignore you from here on out.
This whole discussion isn’t important enough to me anyway.

I have no reason to read anything else you posted anywhere else, it literally doesn't matter to what you said here.

You clearly don't like the changes, you said as much, and you're clearly against anyone having easier access to the game as you want the ridiculously strict timers back for Black Mage.

Removing the timers and having faster cast times didn't really change anything. My cast times didn't actually change that much as I already had a nearly 2.21-second GCD timer before the changes. I actually was able to remove some spell speed and put it into Crit and other things because I didn't want as much spell speed anymore.

And again, just because I'm a casual player, you assume that means I don't know how to play the class, that's the attitude of an elitist snob, not someone who "is usually on the side of the casual player".

But please, keep telling yourself you're not the one with the problem.