Saint Shiva, Menphina, and the Tragedy of Hraesvelgr

[MikkoAkure]

To situate this in the timeline, go back to the early part of the Sixth Astral Era. The mortal Shiva's desire to never be separated from Hraesvelgr resulted in her death, and this love is what inspired the formation of a joint community of mortals and dragons in Dravania, above and below the demesne of Sohm Al. For whatever reason, the game's lore hasn't been explicit about giving a name for this society, but based on the region in the Dravanian Forelands called "Avalonia Fallen" I'm advocating for "Avalonia" as the catch-all term for the Skylord/Landlord stuff in Dravania and the Churning Mists.

Avalonia does seem to be the term used in the game for the Dragon-Elezen home.

Now, consider the possibility that the mortal Shiva was sainted mainly by followers of Menphina, as Shiva's sacrifice in the name of love brought about a miraculous peace and harmony between dragons and mortals. The idea that Menphina would look kindly on the romantic-but-tragic aspects of Shiva's love for Hraesvelgr, and that this would be something that would thus resonate with Menphina's followers as they appealed for peace and love in Avalonia, feels like a very plausible accent to Shiva's story.

I think this might be a bit of a reach though. Ishgard predates Avalonia and any peace with the dragons by at least a decade and it began with a basilica devoted to Halone as she was their patron deity for a time before they even settled Coerthas. The first Ishgardians were nomadic Elezen fleeing central Aldenard/Twelveswood from encroaching Hyur populations and were practically pushed into Coerthas. It's not their native land and wasn't their ideal spot to live. They would have had no connection at all to any pre-Ishgardian population of Coerthas and while the existence of two cultures fighting over and then coexisting on another Shard in the same location could imply that the area would be suitable for other civilizations as well, there are no ruins that suggests there were any on the Source. The weather was already cold even before 7UC and the presence of dragons would have also deterred settlement. Coerthas was the last choice of a desperate people.

As for Shiva herself, she was only a saint to Halonic worshipers (and later dragon-worshiping heretics), not to Menphina worshipers. Officially canonized saints of specific gods are chosen by Sharlayan's Council of Loetstym and Shiva is not one of them. But the Church of Halone seems to have its own separate sainthood and she and some other Ishgardians are referred to as saints in their own, separate canon.

[unlimitedBLACK]

Ishgard predates Avalonia and any peace with the dragons by at least a decade

I thought the order of operations was

1. Hraesvelgr consumes Shiva
2. peace between dragons and mortals for awhile <-- this is where Avalonia should exist
3. Ratatoskr gets unalived by Thordan and his knights
4. Nidhogg starts the DSW and gets mad with Hraesvelgr won't help him, SPECIFICALLY because Hraesvelgr's oath to Shiva prevents him from joining an assault on the mortals
5. Thordan's surviving knights establish Ishgard as their citadel to defend against the dragons

Am I remembering things wrong?

[MikkoAkure]

I thought the order of operations was

1. Hraesvelgr consumes Shiva
2. peace between dragons and mortals for awhile <-- this is where Avalonia should exist
3. Ratatoskr gets unalived by Thordan and his knights
4. Nidhogg starts the DSW and gets mad with Hraesvelgr won't help him, SPECIFICALLY because Hraesvelgr's oath to Shiva prevents him from joining an assault on the mortals
5. Thordan's surviving knights establish Ishgard as their citadel to defend against the dragons

Am I remembering things wrong?

According to what I can find the order is:

1. Elezen flee Hyur expansion and a group of them settle in Coerthas where a collection of villages around the shrine to Halone becomes Ishgard.
2. Hraesvelgr consumes Shiva.
3. Peace between dragons and humans (Avalonia would date to this time period).
4. 200 years later Thordan and his knights kill Ratatoskr and the Dragonsong War begins.
5. At some point later, the church and the High Houses invent a false history where Thordan was led to Coerthas by Halone and that Nidhogg attacked the caravan of settlers and that Avalonia was made by heretics.