Cosmic Exploration is CASUAL content with a pinch of midcore

[CNitsah]

So far, what did I learn from this (I am not being ironic)

1) Some people cannot accept that a piece of content has content for multiple audiences of the player spectrum even if it's totally optional and doesn't affect them in any way.
3) Some people don't have a problem with CE as a whole, their actual problem is with baseline crafting requirements. This is because they have never interacted with actual crafting beyond using community macros or going for society quests and customs. Alternatively, people may want crafting to be easier and more accessible.
4) Crafting still has a relatively high floor and accessibility for a good chunk of the playerbase. It's all but obvious to get from leveling crafters with catch up mechanics to actual baseline recipes. It's all but obvious with all the information to gather on how to meld, what to meld, what are thresholds, what budget one wants to invest into it, and finally finding the macros for endgame recipes. It's all but obvious how a crafting rotation should be built and how every crafting ability interacts within the whole.

1) I would argue that it does not have content for multiple audiences. If the last step of the relics asks you to use the highest lvl of crafting/gathering in the game, there is no point for other audiences to actually interract with the content. The whole content is should be classified by it's most difficult lvl.

3 and 4) I totally agree, but I blame the lack of proper tutorial for high lvl crafting. You can craft nearly everything, even most the recipe in the collection books (I forgot the name), without actually interacting with the crafting at this lvl. So yeah, expert crafting appears as a wall, because the skill needed course has a sudden peak. As often XIV is very bad with teaching its mechanics, and rely on people going to seek information on a third party website/community. Which is asking too much for 90% of the player base.

Most players don't play game to go search the needed information elsewhere : it's more chore than something fun, and it feels so frustrating because of how different things are from their standard experience. I wouldn't even say it's because people are used to use macro. Add to that the fact with each extension, some skills are removed, some other added, to the point you have to relearn the whole thing every 2 years, and your knowledge that was perfectly fine at the time is not anymore.

[Astronis]

1) I would argue that it does not have content for multiple audiences. If the last step of the relics asks you to use the highest lvl of crafting/gathering in the game, there is no point for other audiences to actually interract with the content. The whole content is should be classified by it's most difficult lvl.

It explicitly doesn't. The last step has an 'escape hatch' so people who can't or won't do the harder A missions don't have to. It's not a means which is so accessible that everyone would chose it, it's not the path of least resistance because it's only available a few times a day, but it exists as an alternate and supplemental method to finishing the tools.

[Kaurhz]

1) I would argue that it does not have content for multiple audiences. If the last step of the relics asks you to use the highest lvl of crafting/gathering in the game, there is no point for other audiences to actually interract with the content. The whole content is should be classified by it's most difficult lvl.

People are blowing this out of proportion, IMO.

If the given player can do the Archeo and Ceremonial gear, then this is very little reason that they cannot do a good slice of the A-Rank crafts anyway, seeing as quite a few of them are on-par, if not easier than both Archeo and Ceremonial, tbh... Objectively so

We're in this situation precisely because players search for information elsewhere, it's just a question of how readily that information is, and in the case of Cosmic, this currently isn't the case.

[Fawkes]

I got my Cosmic Fishing Rod and I think now that I understand the content better I'd say it's pretty casual.

I didn't even know what a red alert was for the first couple days because I never saw any. But I didn't get to use them to progress that much, I mostly just targeted easy missions that gave what I needed.

[ASkellington]

So far, what did I learn from this (I am not being ironic)
2) Some people don't like that doh relics are gated behind expert recipes, at least in the past when it was not avoidable.
5) Using loaded words like casual and midcore was not a good idea.

Eh these are the two that resonate with me the most.

2 could be mitigated if the game actually explained or help teach expert recipes. As well as while I expected some challenge considering I've engaged in past relics to someone pretty new and with CE being touted as "casual content" they're pretty blindsided by the fact that some of their progression expects a higher difficulty all of the sudden. And under that pretense, yeah I would be a bit upset that something I expected to start and see through the end relatively easily... is not.

I don't really have a stake in that though because I was already halfway to pentamelded by the time this dropped and while I can't gold most of them (nor do I care to sit down and work through the crafting manually because its not something I personally enjoy) I can do them. And so long as a good chunk of A ranks do not require more than melded script gear I think over all this is fine (doesn't have to be half mind).

As for 5 yeah you walked into that landmine. Casual/Mid/Hardcore are different for too many people. I don't consider CE casual content over all. Or at least Ishgard Restoration felt much more casual than CE does. And I did IR while it was current. Can't place exactly why I feel that way at least for the crafting side. Gathering there is no contest on which is more mindless - gathering mats to be turned in to mats you can craft (IR) vs leves which can range from just mere collecting to points while on a pretty strict timer (CE).

I prefer Cosmic as far as engagement goes, would never consider it "fun" because crafting/gathering isn't fun for me in the slightest, but I don't think its bad content. Just has questionable design choices that don't mesh well with people, myself included.

[hydralus]

This is sort of the problem we have, with how everything has been done.

In that most players are just throwing the first immediate thought that the issue is not something they are doing but whether they are pentamelded or not, when really, that isn't a requirement nor a necessity, but just something that essentially wipes away the skill disparity or RNG factor of crafting (granted the latter takes a high bar)

But in the case of these recipes some people are just doing weird things generally with their crafts, and then thinking that it is resolved by pentamelding, rather than just simply looking at whether their macro, rotation or line of thinking is even good...

Like, you can comfortably macro these:
A-2: Test Material Final Processing
A-1: High Burn Charcoal
A-1: Power Transmission Shafts I
A-2: Power Transmission Shafts II
A-1: Specialized Materials I
A-1: Packing Materials I
A-2: Packing Materials II (Close)

On stats as low as 5210/4708/628, and if you're willing to include specialist in that, then it is doing even more recipes, and to a greater success.. Which anyone that knows is entry entry stats, as in... Scrip gear, mostly old materia and not even using the 4th meld slot on the accessories.

It's fine being casual or not knowing, but it's just so sad that the immediate reaction is must pentameld, or content is too hardcore rather than asking for help or just tweaking.

Yep. At some point they failed to understand some core aspects of the thing they're trying to do. Things like CP-efficient skills like waste not and waste not II are very good, or that +1 stack of inner quiet and 200% power for 40CP is better than most other options because it's all done in a single step and not spread out over multiple. It's like a tank being at endgame wondering why they're struggling with holding aggro because they don't know what grit is. Has little to do with a lack of pentamelds.

[Arohk]

Yep. At some point they failed to understand some core aspects of the thing they're trying to do. Things like CP-efficient skills like waste not and waste not II are very good, or that +1 stack of inner quiet and 200% power for 40CP is better than most other options because it's all done in a single step and not spread out over multiple. It's like a tank being at endgame wondering why they're struggling with holding aggro because they don't know what grit is. Has little to do with a lack of pentamelds.

The problem with all those skills is that they all are too expensive to use. The best solution is simply to brute force HQ with a fixed rotation in a macro and ignore all proccs.

[hydralus]

The problem with all those skills is that they all are too expensive to use. The best solution is simply to brute force HQ with a fixed rotation in a macro and ignore all proccs.

They're situational, sure, but they're very good for the crafting points used. For example why use 18+24 CP for standard touch + refined touch, 2 CP more than preparatory touch for nearly the same progress, and you can fit 4 preparatory touches in a single innovation use. It also helps to have shorter macros when there's time limits to consider, and the fact you might be doing this hundreds if not thousands of times. I'd be curious to see what sort of macros you use to complete the A-1/2 missions because my macros are full of waste not I/II, preparatory touch, and groundwork.

And by 'situational' I mean you shouldn't be using immaculate mend on a craft that only had 40 durability.

[Raenra]

Re. the Rank A crafts, keep an eye out for those which offer two crafting chances but require one output.
For whatever reason it combines the values of both attempts, so they make for very easy golds so long as you don't outright fail the crafts.

[Kaurhz]

Considering the way casuals are often treated by the crowd that knows more? Yeah, can't blame them for not wanting to interact with the mid/hardcore players where some of them don't even treat each other kindly, much less the people "below" them. And the genuinely good mid/hardcore players that want to help? Better watch your "tone" or that's jail time so they can be equally forgiven for not wanting to speak up when asked. (We literally had someone giving me a head pat IN THIS TOPIC being side-eyed if they were being facetious or not.)

Again, a hairstyle was worth bragging about and throwing around accusations of entitlement. That's where we're at right now. (And it wasn't even a good hairstyle IMO.)

Even the solution of "just buy it from the MB" is just a roundabout way of saying "please pay gil to people who likely despise you". AGAIN, not the glowing endorsement for engaging with the content and community that people are trying to paint it as.

It's a whole bunch of people of different skill levels and tolerance being forced to play together and Dawntrail finally brought all that piss and bile to a boil. (Lords knows I've been venting all my woes here, sorry Valence, I know you're good people despite any disagreements). But hey, at least Yoshi-P kept his promise about "more friction" right?

Look, there are situations where, yes, this does apply, e.g., toxicity and the such, which no it isn't OK.

But beyond a point and especially for something like crafting, players can absolutely be more receptive to feedback, or be asking about it, as opposed to blaming the content or the fact they aren't pentamelded..

Literally, if a novice crafter at end-game turned around and said "Hi, I'm struggling with these recipes... I have scrip gear, and these are my stats... I have melded as best as I can... What can I do?", and I would quite literally sit there, analyze their stats, see what is wrong with their melds, if anything, e.g., sacrificing too much CP for Craftsmanship or Control, and I would give feedback on how to generally handle expert recipes, or if they were so inclined I would help them with macros specific to their stats. Or I would give them a resource where they could calculate or get macros on their own.

I'm sorry to respond like this, but beyond a point the player not bothering to ask, assuming the content is too hard, or that the issue is because they haven't churned 10M into melding Everseeker gear is the biggest detriment to their own progress.