SE: Please tone it down a hair

[Starlord]

I'll take HiirNoivl's post and analyse the dialog, since people still don't seem to be getting the point...

Garlemald owes you a great debt, adventurer. Wholly without our prompting, you have now felled the primals of both fire and wind. Such ability and devotion commands even mine own respect.

Hey you beat ifrit and garuda!

You would do well to see reality for what it truly is─cold, cruel, unforgiving. No words could do justice to the great deeds that I have done, nor the countless hardships I have endured in their doing.

Nothing of interest is said in this paragraph.

Corpses litter the fields and choke the streets, and still your gods remain silent─utterly indifferent. Such gods are not fit for worship. As they gaze impassively upon our corpses, so let us gaze upon theirs. The gods are dead to us─we have no need of them.

Nothing of interest is said in this paragraph.

So please, by all means, persist. Struggle to your heart's content. Struggle however you see fit. Struggle long. Struggle oft. And when at last you tire of struggling...summon up your courage and struggle some more!

"Keep at it". And nothing else is said in this paragraph.

For with every act of defiance, another drop of Eorzea's lifeblood shall be given over to the red moon. The crystals, the land, the primals─the power of all shall burn bright and shine down upon this realm a glorious purifying light!

I'm not sure if he's just babbling some more or there's actual meaning to this.

(And this isn't even the end of the text)

Bottom line: SE needs to be concise and to stop adorning empty spaces with bells and whistles. Specially when they end up as five paragraphs of no content.

Those "old english" fanboys can have their cake, but please do it on dialog that's actually relevant... and when writing it, SE, ask yourself "would a person give a speech to a stranger in a conversation? would the stranger stand there and listen for 10 minutes while the other one speaks nothing of interest?"

If the answer is no, then don't write it. It makes no sense.

I actually understand all of that and have Interest in all of what he says.. I honestly don't get whats so hard to comprehend what he's saying, or anyone else for that matter.. but again That's your opinion.. but don't shove this in people faces that you believe what you say is fact and that everyone should believe that this Dialogue sucks and that everyone should be uprising to SE that they should change how they write.

That's how I feel about the opposition right now :/.

[Majidah]

I actually understand all of that and have Interest in all of what he says.. I honestly don't get whats so hard to comprehend what he's saying, or anyone else for that matter.. but again That's your opinion.. but don't shove this in people faces that you believe what you say is fact and that everyone should believe that this Dialogue sucks and that everyone should be uprising to SE that they should change how they write.

That's how I feel about the opposition right now :/.

Explain to me how is it that those paragraphs of text are relevant to your character and why do they exist in the first place. What entices the NPC to say them? Do tell.

Maybe its UHH I don't know, to make up for the fact that the current maps say nothing so they are trying to wrongly create an atmosphere with tolkien long descriptions in a video game when there are visuals to describe the enviroment?

[Skies]

Explain to me how is it that those paragraphs of text are relevant to your character and why do they exist in the first place. What entices the NPC to say them? Do tell.

Maybe its UHH I don't know, to make up for the fact that the current maps say nothing so they are trying to wrongly create an atmosphere with tolkien long descriptions in a video game when there are visuals to describe the enviroment?

:/

To put it in short terms:

He's talking about how the primals are false gods (remember, the Garleans believe that adventurers are akin to beastmen and worship them as well) and how they don't care for us, so we should stop worshipping them. He is also flaunting his superiority and calling us ignorant and then telling that Dalamud is draining the power of the crystals and, by extention, primals in order to work

[Starlord]

:/

To put it in short terms:

He's talking about how the primals are false gods (remember, the Garleans believe that adventurers are akin to beastmen and worship them as well) and how they don't care for us, so we should stop worshipping them. He is also flaunting his superiority and calling us ignorant and then telling that Dalamud is draining the power of the crystals and, by extention, primals in order to work

I was just going to say that, LOL

[Rydin]

I was just going to say that, LOL

Just because you understand it doesn't mean it was explained well (or couldn't have been explained better)....

the story is GREAT
the Dialogue is decent... but, as is the case with most things, it could be written better

Final Fantasy has always been in a weird place...
Stories written in Japanese, with themes that you wouldn't expect a western audience to accept....
Specific concepts like:
Sephiroth's (And Jenova's) will
The Guardian becoming the Final Summon which in turn becomes the new sin (Spoilers much?),
A Sorceress going back in time to harness the power of another who could take her further back in time to achieve time compression
Garland creating soulless beings to be future vessels of the Terrans....
Also, being written in Japanese, they feature references and anecdotes specific to Japanese culture.
But the result is... incredible and awe inspiring....
And as a western audience... we ate it up... every drop
Somehow the localization teams always seem to take all of that Japanese goodness and make it so that we understand it, feel it, and don't miss out on any of the subtle nuances that make these games an experience

My point is... the current dialogue is not bad... it's decent... but doesn't quite live up to any of the past writing...
From this angle though, it's hard to tell if that is because of the writing, or something lost in translation as it was localized...

Is it bad dialogue.... no... but the magic isn't there.... It definitely isn't an Aaron Sorkin story...
It has nothing to do with how easy it is to understand (Although it could stand to be more concise)
Writing isn't judged only on how easy it is to understand... but also not by how pretty the words sound together...

There is a flow... a natural progression. the dialogue helps to weave the story... and this dialogue comes short quite a few times...


I had a thread that was a plot analysis and the prevailing comment was "Thanks, I've read all the text thus far and had no idea what was going on"
If you understand the story... great... good for you... but Stories aren't written to make you feel intelligent for being able to keep up....

Also... if the underlying story is great... but that point isn't getting across to most readers... then I don't know what else to blame than the dialogue

[Starlord]

Just because you understand it doesn't mean it was explained well (or couldn't have been explained better)....

the story is GREAT
the Dialogue is decent... but, as is the case with most things, it could be written better

Final Fantasy has always been in a weird place...
Stories written in Japanese, with themes that you wouldn't expect a western audience to accept....
Specific concepts like:
Sephiroth's (And Jenova's) will
The Guardian becoming the Final Summon which in turn becomes the new sin (Spoilers much?),
A Sorceress going back in time to harness the power of another who could take her further back in time to achieve time compression
Garland creating soulless beings to be future vessels of the Terrans....
Also, being written in Japanese, they feature references and anecdotes specific to Japanese culture.
But the result is... incredible and awe inspiring....
Somehow the localization teams always seem to take all of that Japanese goodness and make it so that we understand it, feel it, and don't miss out on any of the subtle nuances that make these games an experience

My point is... the current dialogue is not bad... it's decent... but doesn't quite live up to any of the past writing...
From this angle though, it's hard to tell if that is because of the writing, or something lost in translation as it was localized...

Is it bad dialogue.... no... but the magic isn't there.... It definitely isn't an Aaron Sorkin story...
It has nothing to do with how easy it is to understand (Although it could stand to be more concise)
Writing isn't judged only on how easy it is to understand... but also not by how pretty the words sound together...

There is a flow... a natural progression. the dialogue helps to weave the story... and this dialogue comes short quite a few times...


I had a thread that was a plot analysis and the prevailing comment was "Thanks, I've read all the text thus far and had no idea what was going on"
If you understand the story... great... good for you... but Stories aren't written to make you feel intelligent for being able to keep up....

Also... if the underlying story is great... but that point isn't getting across to most readers... then I don't know what else to blame than the dialogue

Again all opinions, and you have your right to have them, just don't pull them off as facts, and everyone is happy.. that's all I ask..

[Rydin]

Again all opinions, and you have your right to have them, just don't pull them off as facts, and everyone is happy.. that's all I ask..

Most of what is said in a forum is opinion... that's a given...
It's almost impossible to view any story or dialogue objectively...

With that being said... there isn't anything wrong with saying "I feel like the dialogue is just ok... but isn't as memorable or magical as previous titles" is not a bad thing... and it's not out of place on the forum for said game.

If anything THIS is the place for these opinions

Oh and, to Rydin:
I also do believe that XIV as it stands now has a really friggen fragmented story that has been caused by the change in direction? Or at least something of the sort

Yes... that has to affect it...
Like those stories where you pass the baton and each person tells a piece of it... it can be tough to consistently relay all of the major plot points to the audience....

[HiirNoivl]

Again all opinions, and you have your right to have them, just don't pull them off as facts, and everyone is happy.. that's all I ask..

"It's just an opinion" is all you can say because you have no decent response. I'm starting to think you're the one who hasn't read any dialogue Starlord.

You're acting like "Opinions" are thing that just happen when the fact is that the "opinion" is the reaction to the actual facts. You know the goings on the in the story?

"What you post is an opinion and therefore doesn't matter" belittles peoples posts. Stop saying it.

[Majidah]

:/

To put it in short terms:

He's talking about how the primals are false gods (remember, the Garleans believe that adventurers are akin to beastmen and worship them as well) and how they don't care for us, so we should stop worshipping them. He is also flaunting his superiority and calling us ignorant and then telling that Dalamud is draining the power of the crystals and, by extention, primals in order to work

So you agree that out of 5 paragraphs the only one with actual content is the last.
Maybe he could have delivered how he doesn't worship the avatars, but you know what? He didn't deliver anything. He just blurted out some cold text book lines and justifications and analysis of the current estate of the world.

Why? WHY?

[KaplanHomahru]

So you agree that out of 5 paragraphs the only one with actual content is the last.
Maybe he could have delivered how he doesn't worship the avatars, but you know what? He didn't deliver anything. He just blurted out some cold text book lines and justifications and analysis of the current estate of the world.

Why? WHY?

Because that is him TALKING as a CHARACTER. He isn't a player analyzing the plot for you.
Edit; and it isnt all in the last paragraph, it was just condensed for you into 1.