M6s in PF is the most miserable and unfun high end fight in the game

[mallleable]

I hope we get some actually meaningful job buffs next week to make this less painful. It feel like some jobs are just straight up missing cleave, and burst damage to handle killing adds, and were just not tested in this fight.

[Jeeqbit]

I hope we get some actually meaningful job buffs next week to make this less painful. It feel like some jobs are just straight up missing cleave, and burst damage to handle killing adds, and were just not tested in this fight.

I can burst nigh endlessly on BLM. In my very outdated, last-tier gear, I obliterate packs in Expert roulette in mere seconds.

Summoner bursts every summon. Even outside of Bahamut/Phoenix, it has actions like Slipstream that are strong AoE.

Red Mage can store up an awful lot of AoE bursts to do in succession. 100 Mana, + Manafication, it should wreck everything. Contre Sixt 420, Verholy/flare 650, Scorch 750, Resolution 860, Grand Impact 600.

Oh and let's not bother explaining Pictomancer. We all know Pictomancer's burst capabilities.

Viper of course can store up a whole succession of bursts of Reawaken if you include Serpent's Ire (750>480>480>480>480>1150). And Serpent's Ire itself unlocks a succession of 320>320>320>320. Not to mention its abundant ability to use Uncoiled Fury at 680 potency.

Machinist has got Chain Saw (600), Flamethrower (1000), Full Metal Field (900), Auto Crossbow+Checkmate spam, Bloblaster.

Bard has Pitch Perfect (360), Apex Arrow (600), Rain of Death spam (100), Barrage+Shadowbite (270), Blast Arrow (600), Reasonant Arrow (600), Radiant Oncore (900), all under various party buffs, Raging Strikes and Battle Voice and Radiant Finale.

Dragoon has got Wymwind Thrust (440), Dragonfire Dive (500), Geirskogul (250), Nastrond (720), Stardiver (840), Starcross (1000), Rise of the Dragon (550), with numerous buffs including Life Surge, Lance Charge and Battle Litancy.

Reaper has Plentiful Harvest (720), Communio (1100), Gluttony (520), Sacrificium (600), Perfectio (1300), Soul Scythe (180), Grim Swathe (140), Guillotine (200 or 260) again with buffs like Death's Design and Arcane Circle.

I could go on but jobs have AoE capabilities. Maybe people just don't know how to play them and coordinate their AoE burst/gauge at the relevant times?

[Maltothoris]

Well with machinist, they're baiting the manta ray in the nw most likely which means crossbow and bioblaster are useless. They only have chain saw, excavator and full metal that they can use with their ogcds on the ne manta since thats when they have to use them during the two minute buffs that happen there. Bard has their stuff plus buffs and same goes for dnc.

[mallleable]

I can burst nigh endlessly on BLM. In my very outdated, last-tier gear, I obliterate packs in Expert roulette in mere seconds.

I could go on but jobs have AoE capabilities. Maybe people just don't know how to play them and coordinate their AoE burst/gauge at the relevant times?

Probably should have specified they're missing this kind of damage in between of odd, and even minutes where is actually kind of matters. I sure do wish Barrage had a shorter cooldown, then I might actually feel like I can help kill stuff.

[YukioKobayashi]

Machinist has got Chain Saw (600), Flamethrower (1000), Full Metal Field (900), Auto Crossbow+Checkmate spam, Bloblaster.

MCH AoE sucks and noone can deny it.
There is nothing you can hold on MCH except a Drill/Bioblaster charge without making every 2Min afterwards awkward af. (Edit: And the Chain Saw follow-up i guess)
Bioblaster has a 12y range .. good luck using it whenever you want like a DNC using his Saber Dance.
Crossbow needs 6 targets to be worth using over ST Blazing Shot. BRD and DNC need 2 for most if not all their AOE skills in comparison.
MCH has to interrupt his Heated Combo to use Scattergun while BRD is free to Ladonsbite whenever he wants. Both BRD and DNC are getting procs with ST Skills that can be used on ST and AoE.
And dont get me started on Flamethrower.... 100pps 250p per GCD while not generating any gauge.

[AllenThyl]

I could go on but jobs have AoE capabilities. Maybe people just don't know how to play them and coordinate their AoE burst/gauge at the relevant times?

Not only coordination, but mainly, management. The add phase requires all jobs to come into it with as many resources available as possible. As a SAM, I have a tendo follow up stored, all 3 sen, full kenki gauge, and 2nd charge of meikyo is ready in 30 seconds when the add phase starts. However, experience shows, that many people simply do their normal rotation before, i.e. don't pool anything and just blast the boss as much as possible, but also use their 2 minute abilities (many of which are the main source of cleave damage for a class) when it becomes available, unloading it on the 1st yan. Even the "hold burst till 2nd wave" is not enough, because that usually means that everyone is bursting the 1st manta / mu pack, and is then completely out of juice for 1st jabba. The key is here to learn how to properly manage resources available, and deal as much damage as is necessary, not as much as possible.

Another example, many classes build resources faster doing aoe, i.e. SAM can build blue and purple sen in 2 gcds instead of 3 gcds like in the single target rotation. But just because the resources were built with aoe, doesn't mean they need to be spend on aoe. This all isn't helped by pfs over-reliance on guides spelling everything out in detail or it doesn't exist (with the first raidplan popular in w1 telling healers to dps the 1st mus, because mechanics weren't properly understood), as well as the unwillingness to change to a better strategy if it comes out. Quite frankly, I also suspect that one very large reason that this fight is such an insurmountable wall in pf is the reliance on plugins to do their rotation, which utterly fail during a phase with so many moving parts. The tank being a bit slower to move the adds is no problem for a dps actually playing, but with autoroation that can mean that all the cleave is completely wasted. Frankly, just from this aspect, SE need to do more such fights that require holding burst a bit and spacing it out.

[Volgia]

I hope we get some actually meaningful job buffs next week to make this less painful. It feel like some jobs are just straight up missing cleave, and burst damage to handle killing adds, and were just not tested in this fight.

When people get their tome weapons, the adds will just melt. I've gone through adds with MCH and BRDs (where as DNCs are just king), and they adds still die really fast.