Wife unable to do alliance raid roulette once she hit 60.

[Mawlzy]

There are plenty of people who enjoy Void Ark and the other raids, that argument proves nothing other than you don't like that raid.

Personally I wouldn't object to CT being added to MSQ roulette, though I wouldn't outright move it there, as that would create the same weirdness that exists in normal raids since Bahamut isn't included in that list (granted Bahamut is on a different level of difficulty from non-upscaled normal raids, but that gap is still odd). Like I said before, the system I propose only requires you to run it the one time, cheesing the system afterwards to get whatever raid you want is a different matter, and I do agree with Supersnow845 on the idea of making the MSQ qualifier be related to the specific patch, as that creates a reasonable buffer before it gets temporarily locked off.

You are making a bigger deal out of the idea of completing a standard difficulty alliance raid once to access randomized alliance raids than it is, while also providing no constructive counter-argument for how the idea can be improved other than the MSQ roulette adjustment. This isn't asking you to unlock ultimates and savages or chaotics (though I could have done better to state that in my proposal), this is asking you to experience what the base of what the alliance raid system has to offer at each level bracket in order to use the system that is designed as a weighted randomizer with incentive. Are some raids harder than others? Yes, but we have resources available for learning mechanics, most of which are just a matter of knowing what to do, and FF14 is the most supportive community I've seen in the raiding space, it's okay to make mistakes so long as those mistakes don't become intentional acts to hinder.

I don't need to bang my head against a wall multiple times to realize it hurts.

I'd suggest the reason we're talking past each other here is that I regard PvE in 14 as miserable in general. It wasn't until I came to these boards that I discovered this was a controversial opinion.

My guess is the reason some people keep trying to find new ways to force people to engage in PvE is that they want everyone to suffer along with them. For those who genuinely enjoy doing hundreds of pulls to clear a single raid, I will never understand your mindset, but please don't impose your obsessions on the rest of us.

[Rika_Isshoku]

Alternately, just give Crystal Tower its own roulette, since I'm not sure how often it would pop in MSQ roulette when its trying to find 4 people versus 24 constantly. (It's the same reason the 8-man guildhest rarely ever appears versus the 4-man ones.)

Or maybe just break down and make a Duty Support/Squadron/Trust-specific story version of CT if they INSIST everyone has to know who Granola Tia is before Shadowbringers, then anyone who doesn't want to can skip unlocking the alliance raid version and boom, suddenly less CT popping because it's no longer mandatory.
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I did the Mhach raids several times trying to get all the minions, though at least the repeat visits were unsync so it wasn't a hassle.

Considering roulettes are a weighted system that tries to favor content that has direct queues running for it, CT would likely still see people popping in if it were in MSQ roulette, if not from later-game players trying to run it, then from new ones running it for the first time. Implementing a squadon and trust version of it doesn't seem viable to me, as who would ever have 23 squad npcs, if the cap even goes near there, and trusts use major characters for party npcs. Duty Support could work since there have been npcs in those that were just generic grand company soldiers, which would make filling out the list much easier. I wouldn't mind there being more duty support access simply because the npcs are usually helpful for learning mechanics by guiding the player to safe standing positions and priority targets, and there are multiple MSQ-required dungeons and trials that could use it.

[Daralii]

Considering roulettes are a weighted system that tries to favor content that has direct queues running for it, CT would likely still see people popping in if it were in MSQ roulette, if not from later-game players trying to run it, then from new ones running it for the first time. Implementing a squadon and trust version of it don't seem viable to me, as who would ever have 23 squad npcs, if the cap even goes near there, and trusts use major characters for party npcs. Duty Support could work since there have been npcs in those that were just generic grand company soldiers, which would make filling out the list much easier. I wouldn't mind there being more duty support access simply because the npcs are usually helpful for learning mechanics by guiding the player to safe standing positions and priority targets, and there are multiple MSQ-required dungeons and trials that could use it.

Roulettes also start at the lowest level duties and expand the search upwards, which is another reason why CT is as common as it is.

[Mawlzy]

I did the Mhach raids several times trying to get all the minions, though at least the repeat visits were unsync so it wasn't a hassle.

Were it not for the glam, the Nier raids would have been DOA.

Even SE doesn't believe in its PvE content. That's why they bribe us with roulettes and rewards.

[Rika_Isshoku]

I don't need to bang my head against a wall multiple times to realize it hurts.

I'd suggest the reason we're talking past each other here is that I regard PvE in 14 as miserable in general. It wasn't until I came to these boards that I discovered this was a controversial opinion.

My guess is the reason some people keep trying to find new ways to force people to engage in PvE is that they want everyone to suffer along with them. For those who genuinely enjoy doing hundreds of pulls to clear a single raid, I will never understand your mindset, but please don't impose your obsessions on the rest of us.

I'm not asking you to bang your head against the wall multiple times, you're literally ignoring the basis of my proposal which is only having to do the raid once in order to clear the requirement for, once again, a weighted randomize system, if you really can't tolerate doing that, the randomize system isn't there for you to begin with, and you are better off direct-queuing, which the weighted part of the system is designed to help you in.

The PvE is standard for this type of MMO, the closest complaint I've ever heard about it was due to it being slower than other MMOs if you don't consider the effect of buffs, job traits and gear. If you don't like the way the game plays, that's subjective and only clues in that you may not be playing the right game for you or you have fundamentally missed something about the PvE gameplay.

Your description of doing "hundreds of pulls" implies to me that you did fundamentally miss something about dungeon and raid tactics, or you are maliciously exaggerating. Once again, all I'm "forcing" is for you to do an action that respects the purpose of roulettes which is a better system than what exists since it doesn't horribly hinder those leveling other jobs the way the current system does, as I said before, you could always just direct-queue without restriction, or outright avoid PvE altogether to do the activity that seems to be keeping you from dropping the game since you seem to hate the basic gameplay so much and raids in connection to that.

[Mawlzy]

The PvE is standard for this type of MMO, the closest complaint I've ever heard about it was due to it being slower than other MMOs if you don't consider the effect of buffs, job traits and gear. If you don't like the way the game plays, that's subjective and only clues in that you may not be playing the right game for you or you have fundamentally missed something about the PvE gameplay.

PvE is, for most of us, a tiny fraction of what the game has to offer. If I felt it was a significant part of 14, you are of course correct. I would not play the game.

I don't believe I've missed anything about the PvE gameplay. It's central philosophy is that the player attempts to emulate a perfect AI, memorizing the sequence of movement and button clicks to get the doggie biscuit at the end.

[Mawlzy]

The funny thing to me about this thread is that I initially read it because I thought someone's wife had just turned 60 years of age and this milestone had diminished their ability to do alliance raids.

[Hallarem]

I cant believe this out of all subjects keeps being the top thread... oops

[Mawlzy]

I mean... I'll be 42 this year, so I already have the issue that I can no longer "git gud" because aging makes the reaction times and manual dexterity go down, not up.

Yeah I doubt I could hit 30% of my Asteroids high-score from 40 years ago.

[Rika_Isshoku]

The idea is that an NPC-assisted/story-only version of Crystal Tower would be condensed/simplified to a 4-man version of it, similar to what they did with Ifrit/Titan/Garuda back in the day, thus making that version the mandatory unlock for MSQ progress while making the 24-man we have right now the optional unlock. They could even toss said 4-man version into the MSQ roulette at that point, thus negating the issue of needing to wait up on 24 people.

It would also come with the added bonus that they could then ramp the 24-man Crystal Tower back up to being comparable to the other 24-mans in challenge because they don't need to keep the barrier to completion low anymore, which would hopefully negate the dreadful boredom that so many vets have for running it because now it's spicy again.
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I mean... I'll be 42 this year, so I already have the issue that I can no longer "git gud" because aging makes the reaction times and manual dexterity go down, not up.

I do see that idea being interesting, I have concerns on the idea of it being specifically a 4-man due to issues with having to rework mechanics, but I haven't done CT unsynced to know if that low of a player count is already accounted for. If not, I'd suggest a 12-man system for it instead, which would still work well with duty support while opening it up to the possibility of it being ran with squadrons.