So how would you buff bard? (Just like to hear peoples thoughts)

[mallleable]

Double DOTs feels really slow and cumbersome in the current pace of fights. I want them to consolidated, make Caustic Bite the only dot.

[Xieldras]

Double DOTs feels really slow and cumbersome in the current pace of fights. I want them to consolidated, make Caustic Bite the only dot.

Double DoTs is one of the few things left that makes BRD distinct from other Jobs (and a leftover from the old days). By matching them to the current Savage fights, you essentially remove the extra from all previous content.

First Walking Casts, now the Healerfication of DoTs? What is your wish for Bard, truly?

[mallleable]

Double DoTs is one of the few things left that makes BRD distinct from other Jobs (and a leftover from the old days). By matching them to the current Savage fights, you essentially remove the extra from all previous content.

First Walking Casts, now the Healerfication of DoTs? What is your wish for Bard, truly?

I'm tired of the job being passive. If you want to start properly dealing damage to an enemy, you have to wait until you have applied both dots to them (it takes 20 seconds to apply your DOTs on all 4 adds in ex4). Also with dots, you have to wait on them to deal their full damage. To illustrate how I've been feeling about BRD's DOTs is like this:

The Gimme Cat has appeared! Do you want to apply your damage over time attack to the Gimme Cat?

[YES] [NO]

Hawk's Eye proc chances are so low so you have to wait around spamming Burst Shot. You have to wait until you have collected all the stickers until Radiant Finale, and Encore are at their strongest -- which are just passively given to you for doing the normal song cycle. The bulk of BRD damage comes from its raid buff which are just fire, and forget about them, and yet it has one of the highest APM rotations so its damage actions matter less that just slapping a little icon on your party. BRD doesn't feel like an active participant in its party or in a fight. So much waiting. I'm not going to pretend like this is all good or interesting -- all of this contributes to the perception that BRD's gameplay is boring, and unrewarding.

I want BRD to be active. Why I want walking casts is they would make using each Burst Shot a little bit more of an active decision as you would have to formulate plans for your positioning, and movement in any fight, not just the current savage tier. And they just feel way more bow-like than current Burst Shot -- I want the bow part of BRD to matter. I don't want its DOT to feel like an obnoxious YES/NO prompt. It's time to let the old days go, and move on.

[Carighan]

DoT vs DD doesn't change the APM though. You use 1 GCD every GCD cycle. Whether that ability prints 100k damage or deals 10x10k damage over 30 seconds, that's of no mechanical difference to how you press the buttons.

[Valence]

The reason double dots feel redundant is because both do the exact same thing with the exact same timer, and there is a single GCD use skill that refreshes both at once (iron jaws).

[Carighan]

The reason double dots feel redundant is because both do the exact same thing with the exact same timer, and there is a single GCD use skill that refreshes both at once (iron jaws).

Yeah that's indeed quite weird. 3 GCD skills to produce 2 effects. I don't mind having two DoT skills, as GCDs, since well it's just a different way of dealing damage as far as the damage profile goes. But it ought to at least interact with the kit, and not waste 3 buttons. One button that auto-combos from one DoT skill into the other or so.

[mallleable]

BRD essentially has one DOT that takes two GCDs to apply, and takes up three hotbar slots. The redundancy was ignorable back then, but it feels especially clumsy in the current faster pace of fights. At this point, I would prefer the potency of Stormbite be moved over to Caustic Bite, Stormbite to be reworked to not be a DOT, and Iron jaws be replaced with something else. I like the current pace of fights, and I want BRD to be better equipped for them.

[Carighan]

BRD essentially has one DOT that takes two GCDs to apply, and takes up three hotbar slots. The redundancy was ignorable back then, but it feels especially clumsy in the current faster pace of fights. At this point, I would prefer the potency of Stormbite be moved over to Caustic Bite, Stormbite to be reworked to not be a DOT, and Iron jaws be replaced with something else. I like the current pace of fights, and I want BRD to be better equipped for them.

I'd use the chance to also declutter hotbars, which Bard can urgently need like most jobs can:

* Iron Jaws removed
* Stormbite left as-is
* Caustic Bite is a trait-upgrade from Stormbite that has Stormbite spread to one nearby target with its remaining duration each time it deals damage, effectively multiplying in AoE situations on its own. Otherwise exactly intact. And as you say, combine the potency.

So from 3 to 1 button, for actually more functionality than before. And it's not like Bard is lacking for buttons to push, anyways... Plus some extra AoE spice because eh, always useful.

[Jamini]

In response to the Ops title question:

- Bigger buffs (bard should, at 50+ percentile, above selfish jobs in raid damage. While their personal damage should remain just above the tank)
- More utility
-- Nameless Song (FFT) - 30s Reraise buff, 300s cooldown
-- Silent Verse (FF4) - Self-buff. Makes next head graze an AoE
-- Mazurka (FF5, FF11) - replaces pelotan (since it's worthless now anyway). Small movement speed buff. Functions in combat for 10s with a 60s cooldown.
--Advancing March (FF11) - Reduces auto attack delay by 10% on target. Cast-recast of 30s.

[Shurrikhan]

I'd use the chance to also declutter hotbars, which Bard can urgently need like most jobs can:

* Iron Jaws removed
* Stormbite left as-is
* Caustic Bite is a trait-upgrade from Stormbite that has Stormbite spread to one nearby target with its remaining duration each time it deals damage, effectively multiplying in AoE situations on its own. Otherwise exactly intact. And as you say, combine the potency.

So from 3 to 1 button, for actually more functionality than before. And it's not like Bard is lacking for buttons to push, anyways... Plus some extra AoE spice because eh, always useful.

Serious, if subjective, question:

Which has more DoT "gameplay" available for dungeons, a single GCD of AoE DoT, or actually DoTing multiple enemies over multiple GCDs?

For my part, it's generally the latter, especially if the extent to which one should multi-DoT shifts according to available targets' TTK in ways that would actually be felt frequently enough, but it feels here like often the more convoluted the tooltip, no matter how self-playing or reductive of prior value of optimization, that's what gets considered thematic here.

Not meant as a dig at the caustic auto-spreading idea, as that at least might see reason to target enemies on opposite side of a pack or still allow multiple GCDs of DoTing in AoE just to get the spread up faster for slight (even if massively diminished) increase in net ppgcd, but that's always felt like a strange contrast on these forums.


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For broader context:

I'd personally prefer to simply unsync the DoTs, such as by making one a 15s and the other a 21s timer, or one 12s and the other 18s, etc., with damage per tick amped up commensurately. Ideally, I'd then have Iron Jaws be an alternative to Sidewinder, where, say, Sidewinder ricochets off DoTed targets and Iron Jaws instead refreshes all active timers and deals focal damage to a target from all DoTed enemies nearby.