7.2 MSQ opinions (spoiler obviously)

[Exmo]

It's about the warrior of darkness, duh.

Seriously though, the player character has always been the main character, hence y'know, you playing them. You're watching/experiencing the journey of the WoL 99% of the time. The primary narrative of every story in the game is filtered through your character, not someone else. The fact that other people have more backstory for why they do something is inconsequential. It'd be like suggesting that Martin is the main character of Oblivion because he's the most prominent NPC despite the entire rest of the massive game.

You're describing a point of view character. That's not the same thing as a protagonist or main character (in terms of story focus).

[hydralus]

You're describing a point of view character. That's not the same thing as a protagonist or main character (in terms of story focus).

Being a POV character doesn't exclude them from being the main character and in fact a lot of POV characters are considered the main characters of their respective tales. Pokemon's Red, Zelda's Link, as a few examples.

I know you think you're clever with the whole "Uhmn actually the WoL is not the main character" but by every sense of the definition, they are. Perhaps you are the one confusing what a protagonist is and what a main character is? Because if you look it up, you'll see the WoL is the definition of a main character. Protagonists and main characters are different after all (if we're going to be pedantic). Emet and G'raha are protagonists/antagonists, but they're not main characters.

[Exmo]

...

Rude, so not interested in discussing this with you tbh.

All I'm saying is centering a story on a blank canvas silent character like the WoL because they are habitually a passive agent, do not engage in ideological dialogue, have very limited modes of expression, and can only feature limited growth of character to avoid infringing on player self-insertion. Please don't respond to this, cheers.

[Akamadoshi]

The conversation about WOL being main focus or not is quite interesting read.
I personally never felt I was the "main center of focus" because everyone except the WOL got the answers to the question.
WOL however, has to "GATHER" information, in order for the other NPC to "GET" the information (see what I did there!)
Sometimes WOL throws their two cents of "Ah, perhaps it's this..."
It's ALWAYS been like that. WOL is there to listen, nod in silence.
Emet Selch described in the story the WOL very very well few times (I forgot the exact quotes). That said, it never bothered me. However, what bothered me for the first time was WOL really going along wih /anything/ and /everything/ and lost a huge part of personality. Instead of us discussing with the Scions/others what we may do, an NPC appearing out of the sky who is known to one NPC means we instantly agree.

7.2 was... breath of fresh air. I don't think it had anything for me to do with Wuk Lamat because I play Japanese language and so also Japanese voices. Wuk Lamat's voice actress is my favourite Leporitt (Mapping Way) so I love her voice a lot and her enthusiasm (I only dislike her impatience and immaturity like most others). To me I did not look forward to this "new introduced character" because I thought it had something to do with what they spoiled already "the new people in the arts". What I did not know however, was that Sphene was also returning as her genuine self. And the most shocking was, I really like her more than I thought (I am really, really, really not a fan of Sphene and that is putting it feather lightly) what I dislike about her is who she is like as a person. "I am fine, let's do it this way, and everything is okay"... "No everything is not okay everything is about me and I feel left out wah wah" I don't like these type of girls and she annoys me (it is kind of a personality type known in Japan but I cannot find a better way to explain it) I hope I warm up more to her. But I am very envious how she is pretty and I wish I can have a character with her body type/face (and the new guy) also her wearing hoodie with hair and hair I always wanted made me feel sad because it will become another mogstation item 5 years from now on if lucky. But that is me being petty.

What I do complain are the villains in the Dawntrail story:
- They are not intimidating
- They are childlike
- Immature and their goals are as shallow as child-story books
- The feeling of "we are in real danger" or "danger is ahead" is severely lacking.
I feel like I need to just smack that boy out of his office chair
But before we are able he will press the "Oh sh&* button" and summons a Monster
- I cannot help but wonder if he turns out to become a 'good guy'
Trying for another "emotional bait" only for them to ditch the character like Zero and Golbez, Rynn and Reina.

I feel I cannot get attached to any character anymore after what they did with Zero.

[OMGJesuis66]

- I cannot help but wonder if he turns out to become a 'good guy'
Trying for another "emotional bait" only for them to ditch the character like Zero and Golbez, Rynn and Reina..

I do believe Calyx is being painted to be quite irredeemable as a villain, which THANK GODS, I was tired of this whole trope of 'sad, misunderstood villain' that Shadowbringers shoved in our throats since.
His presentation has been brief, and truth be told, all the characters that were villains had very vain and shallow motivations without being intimidating, literally, the only villain that carried an intimidating vibe was Zenos. Not even Emet was, and yes, Emet reasoning was shallow and very ignorant. People just love him because they made a simple trope right with an emotional gut punch that worked for some.

What I take from Calyx is that he is no longer capable of processing the will of mankind's survival and acceptance of a flawed nature of self and mortality. He is desensitized from the basic concepts of what it means to be a human at that point, even more so for living over 400 years, pulling all the strings behind all the events within Alexandria. His knowledge matching things that only our group of heroes know is perhaps the most interesting. The principle between shards, how each reflection is named, and even a degree of understanding of the Azem's Crystal. It has potential to become something interesting, and more of a villain that you debate morals/knowledge, not measure might. What comes from it, we have yet to see.

[Kozh]

Not even Emet was, and yes, Emet reasoning was shallow and very ignorant.

How is his reasoning shallow and ignorant?

[OMGJesuis66]

How is his reasoning shallow and ignorant?

Inter-planetary genocide in an attempt to revive a bunch of people while dismissing completely what is to be alive, what makes one alive, and understanding that their time has passed is quite shallow and ignorant to me. Even more, he spoke about how he tried and even had kids. That was the moment that my complete suspension of disbelief crashed down, and I could not see him past a bland villain. It just could not make any sense that he wasn't at the slightest affected by his life experiences, and wanted to pursue only the return of a very bland society, twisted and horrifying, settled in their own ways without noticing the ignorance path they have taken (which was hilarious given they were presented as scholars and always evolving under friendly debate of perspectives), at the cost of billions of lives? Yeah, no. It felt too much out there for me to relate, felt silly at every step. But it will devolve into another argument that's not really the point here.

[Mawlzy]

Inter-planetary genocide in an attempt to revive a bunch of people while dismissing completely what is to be alive, what makes one alive, and understanding that their time has passed is quite shallow and ignorant to me. Even more, he spoke about how he tried and even had kids. That was the moment that my complete suspension of disbelief crashed down, and I could not see him past a bland villain. It just could not make any sense that he wasn't at the slightest affected by his life experiences, and wanted to pursue only the return of a very bland society, twisted and horrifying, settled in their own ways without noticing the ignorance path they have taken (which was hilarious given they were presented as scholars and always evolving under friendly debate of perspectives), at the cost of billions of lives? Yeah, no. It felt too much out there for me to relate, felt silly at every step. But it will devolve into another argument that's not really the point here.

Didn't he claim a rationale that he didn't regard sundered beings as truly alive, thus wiping them out en masse was no biggie?

I'd agree it's a questionable argument, but if you reject it, you're also compelled to become a vegan.

[Supersnow845]

Emet’s selch I think less represents veganism or the old “destroying an ant hill is tantamount to ant genocide” and more wilful dehumanisation of people you see less than yourself in pursuit of a goal; ie detachment of problematic consequences

16 does this as well with the bearer system where the people justify any treatment of bearers by designating them as less than human even though nobody can actually justify or point to why a bearer is less than a human. It’s a cruel detachment to attain a goal even though deep down you know it’s bullshit

Emet selch isn’t stupid enough to believe his own bullshit about being less than human especially considering that the other unsundered don’t even agree with him (well at least eldibus considers the aetherical balance of the source to revolve around the sundered which is close enough to saying “they are worth something”), it just reads as self justification for cruel detachment in service of a goal. Venat does the same thing when she accepts the loss of 7.5 shards to bet on the WOL to defeat meteion

[OMGJesuis66]

Didn't he claim a rationale that he didn't regard sundered beings as truly alive, thus wiping them out en masse was no biggie?

I'd agree it's a questionable argument, but if you reject it, you're also compelled to become a vegan.

Yep. It is bullshit argument.
And somehow the game wanted me to feel sorry for the guy. And in subsequent patches, the game kept trying to force me take options as if my WoL had the promise to keep for him, as if the fight was tragic and Emet misunderstood.

It really did not sit well with me, the character over his whole time with you build 0 empathy, spin a lot of bullshit at the end, and I should shed tears for him for the next 5 patches?

Stg, Bozja had a better storytelling and characters than MSQ. But yeah, I know, unpopular opinion, throw your stones.