Accessibility options urgently in need of update

[Astronema]

I have ms and don't have the dexterity to do any of this new stuff I would just drag the teams down. I've given up on ever finishing any of it.

[Vesplume]

Adding my support to this thread as someone who has been pretty active in the Eye Strain thread since DT started. Accessibility is the worst it's ever been and many people have been trying to point that out for months now to no avail. I don't have colorblindness so I can't speak to those issues, but this is something a major developer publishing one of the biggest MMOs should be aware of. There should be more options available to deal with these issues.

These visual elements are a way for the devs to flex the capabilities of the updated graphics engine, which is why it's a recurring problem in DT content (even though examples date as far back as SHB). Looking pretty doesn't mean much if it's indecipherable to people trying to play the content, and it means even less when it's causing harm to players just trying to play the game. It's a design philosophy they need to reassess.

[Rainfallen]

Praising visual clutter for making these fights hard is like me saying, "Let's add an innate 600ms packet delay to processing and then design fights that require low latency and/or high reaction times.", it's utterly ridiculous that people out there are adhering to this level of logic. Like for both of these points, neither of them are innate difficulties, but are extrinsic difficulty factors that in a significant amount of cases will just serve to hamper or annoy the player rather than actually present a skill-oriented challenge. They have managed perfectly reasonably difficult fights in the past without completely doing a massacre on accessibility.

There is no circumstance where it is appropriate, frankly... If you want to add reasonable visual cues which conform to even the most rudimentary accessibility practice then go ahead. If you want to add some flare then go ahead, but keep it at a reasonable level. No need to try and flashbang the screen with unnecessary information... It's so bizarre that they managed to do memorable moments and challenging moments in the past without needing to do half the nonsense they do now.

Honestly... This situation has made me not even bother or have faith in the design processes, really.. I haven't raided since Eden's Verse, due to some of these abysmal design decisions, so it's utterly disappointing to see they are trying to double down on this design aspect after 4 years.

Honestly, fair on this re clutter. I wasn't necessarily praising per se, more so pointing out where I felt an upper ceiling was alright in my case. Though I do suppose that text is harder to parse out than a verbal conversation, where words can be put together a bit better, so my apologies on that there! Words are hard @_@

I do agree with you though, I hadn't even taken ping into account either so good call on that one quite honestly. I'm already seeing issues with my prog of M5S with the flashbang, it's causing a bsod effect on me making it hard to process information.

I'm okay, on my end, with some visual clutter, but it being an end-all-be-all is not great, no. That I agree on

[Daralii]

"Let's add an innate 600ms packet delay to processing and then design fights that require low latency and/or high reaction times."

Titan(Hard) was really where fight design peaked, but then they had to go and patch the deliberate 2000ms(or whatever) delay.

[Kaurhz]

Honestly, fair on this re clutter. I wasn't necessarily praising per se, more so pointing out where I felt an upper ceiling was alright in my case. Though I do suppose that text is harder to parse out than a verbal conversation, where words can be put together a bit better, so my apologies on that there! Words are hard @_@

I do agree with you though, I hadn't even taken ping into account either so good call on that one quite honestly. I'm already seeing issues with my prog of M5S with the flashbang, it's causing a bsod effect on me making it hard to process information.

I'm okay, on my end, with some visual clutter, but it being an end-all-be-all is not great, no. That I agree on

Oh no, it wasn't in reference to you but the 'knuckle head', and I suppose it wasn't really praising, as such, but more just the fact they seem to deem it as a justifiable design decision. I just generally don't side well when it's justified by "But it adds difficulty", "But removing it makes it easier". Anything that adds extrinsic difficulty shouldn't be a factor... That said, apologies if it came across that I was ranting towards you, just at the 'knucklehead' - That's why I also dragged ping into it... Would the person, or other players condoning it still have the same attitude towards something like adding innate delays as a means of 'adding difficulty', if they do not, then I don't see why it should apply to color blindness in the first place.

I can understand when it comes to accessibility, especially around visual impairment, that you aren't going to appease everyone, but what they are doing is just ignoring even the most rudimentary accessibility things. It's sad to see, because in the past they could design engaging, fun and visually appealing encounters without trying to add visual flashbangs on the screen or feel like they are deliberately trying to cause sensory overload.. and it isn't about "Making it easier" (for those that have that line of thinking), it's more just not having visual clutter and reducing the superfluousness of it where needed. (Which they used to be perfectly capable of doing without trying to turn everything into a visual spectacle)

Back when I did raid (and I actually enjoyed it on its own), for Eden's Verse, I was doing it on console, and it didn't actually have native accessibility options at the time, not sure they still do?, by the time we were getting close to the 4th fight, I almost stepped out... The group I was playing with though, was happy to make any needed accommodations, like additional call outs. They have since asked me about 2-3 times if I would be willing to try raiding again, and it's always a flat nope... The encounters were fun and it was thrilling, but it isn't fun trying to fight an uphill battle with extrinsic difficulty, and it's not fun feeling like I am holding other people back due to an issue which isn't skill based.

[Rainfallen]

Oh no, it wasn't in reference to you but the 'knuckle head', and I suppose it wasn't really praising, as such, but more just the fact they seem to deem it as a justifiable design decision. I just generally don't side well when it's justified by "But it adds difficulty", "But removing it makes it easier". Anything that adds extrinsic difficulty shouldn't be a factor... That said, apologies if it came across that I was ranting towards you, just at the 'knucklehead' - That's why I also dragged ping into it... Would the person, or other players condoning it still have the same attitude towards something like adding innate delays as a means of 'adding difficulty', if they do not, then I don't see why it should apply to color blindness in the first place.

I can understand when it comes to accessibility, especially around visual impairment, that you aren't going to appease everyone, but what they are doing is just ignoring even the most rudimentary accessibility things. It's sad to see, because in the past they could design engaging, fun and visually appealing encounters without trying to add visual flashbangs on the screen or feel like they are deliberately trying to cause sensory overload.. and it isn't about "Making it easier" (for those that have that line of thinking), it's more just not having visual clutter and reducing the superfluousness of it where needed. (Which they used to be perfectly capable of doing without trying to turn everything into a visual spectacle)

OH GOTCHA!! Nah you didn't come off as that toward me, but I felt it worthwhile to still clarify my end, tbf.

I feel a really good example of them making engaging without flashbanging and being inacessible is honestly P10S. We know they can make HARD fights but make them not be a visual nightmare to look at. P10S was that fight and I ABSOLUTELY ADORED it. There was a touch of visual "aaaaaaaaaaaaa" but it wasn't flashbangs or anything of the sort there. It was fast, it was technical, and it was hard without making my eyes glaze over. I know people hated that spider, and I cannot blame them, because it was hard but to me it's an excellent example of difficulty without blinding the party.

The group I was playing with though, was happy to make any needed accommodations, like additional call outs. They have since asked me about 2-3 times if I would be willing to try raiding again, and it's always a flat nope... The encounters were fun and it was thrilling, but it isn't fun trying to fight an uphill battle with extrinsic difficulty, and it's not fun feeling like I am holding other people back due to an issue which isn't skill based.

my static is a gem amongst gems in terms of callouts, last tier callouts were adjusted so that I could process certain mechanics better, and I really appreciate them for it.

[kryptosona]

As someone who suffers from no visual impairments or disabilities, even I agree that some of the visual tells and color combinations have been too much lately. During Cruiserweight Match 1, there are times where I have to close my eyes because the lights from the AOEs flash too brightly.

Aesthetically, it's brilliant! As someone who did music in their youth and loves disco music, the entire fight is so well designed and such a fun time, but going from a dark arena to a bright flash of light is a little too much.

So, I am in agreement that not only does there need to be an update to the accessibility options, but also more consideration for people who do have visual impairments and disabilities.

[Daralii]

As someone who suffers from no visual impairments or disabilities, even I agree that some of the visual tells and color combinations have been too much lately. During Cruiserweight Match 1, there are times where I have to close my eyes because the lights from the AOEs flash too brightly.

Aesthetically, it's brilliant! As someone who did music in their youth and loves disco music, the entire fight is so well designed and such a fun time, but going from a dark arena to a bright flash of light is a little too much.

So, I am in agreement that not only does there need to be an update to the accessibility options, but also more consideration for people who do have visual impairments and disabilities.

There needs to be more consideration for sight and readability in general. They've largely abandoned the standardized and clear mechanic telegraphs and have fallen into a common MMO trap of overly intricate and/or vague telegraphs of a color that's the same color as the lighting and/or arena, and even if you have battle effects off, the abilities that are shown regardless(LB3s being the most common) can easily obstruct things.

[Ayden-Erebus]

It's been 5 years playing this game and its become a running joke with a group of friends when new content drops, will I even be able to clear it properly without needing outside help LMAO (Voice Callouts until I can learn to do the fight based on sound if able). I was practically barred from EW Tier 3 Savage because P9 has an all light blue floor with light lines and I straight up could not see the lines due to colorblindness. A friend dragged me through normal and stood with me after the clear and asked me if I saw the lines on the floor. I see 0 lines.
I cleared P1 and P2, saw P3 and just busted out laughing because if people without colorblindness were struggling with that stage? No way in hell was I clearing that. I have to swap to purple/green mode for that fight, and that HURTS my eyes. None of the colorblind settings help me whatsoever, and often times I might as well play without them! The settings are extremely outdated, and I am constantly telling people when I hit a wall in game that's due to my colorblindness, I just go "Wow, the Devs reminding me that colorblind people don't exist in their country yet again, bless" xD (Thumbs up as my corpse lays on the ground).

I do get tired of having friends have to practically hold my hand and walk my sorry butt across the stage for fights when I can't distinguish AOEs from the floor. When new dungeons drop, I run it with NPCs first to make sure I can practice certain mechanics in case colorblindness stumps me. For the newest dungeon, one of the bosses does a bunch of light orange/yellow triangles/cone AOEs on the floor but the floor also looks light orange/yellow to me. I was unaware there were even AOEs happening but I saw G'raha moving in a weird way so I just assumed something was happening that I just couldn't see. I chose to just eat the double AOEs on the both of us stacked together because a friend told me getting hit by ~the Unknown Nonsense I Couldn't See~ resulted in death. For the Field Station Dungeon, "Free Spirits" mechanic (Haha we love this one), I CAN'T SEE THE LINES ON THE GROUND. So I do it based on zooming all the way in on my character and I LISTEN VERY CLOSELY with my eyes on my visual audio bars to see if it gets TOO LOUD and the bars SPIKE REALLY HIGH. This means I am most likely standing right in the middle of the path and I walk forward or backward depending on how loud it is. Thank the gods each spirit makes a noise when they go by or I would just eat the dirt every time. I still get clipped sometimes as it is not a perfect method, but I am trying my best!

[Ayden-Erebus]

I have learned to play a good chunk of this game with surround sound so I know when to move based on how close the AOEs are to my character (this doesn't always work by the way). There were many fights (like Bozja Savage in particular), where I slammed up audio queue settings and whatnot because I knew I would not be able to see certain mechanics. I feel like I play the majority of this game based on hearing. So I turn off most voices unless a fight needs voice lines for mechanics. The amount of adjusting I do in the game to get the "same experience" as other people sucks.

When new content drops, I make it a point to run it 10+ times, especially if I see colorblindness will be an issue. I try my best to immediately learn to adjust because I don't want to be a burden to Duty Finder players who are just trying to do their roulettes. I even have an in-game macro for party chat for the times where I do swap to green/purple mode to warn the party in advance and thanking them for their patience.

I will be progging Ex4 this weekend. I have been warned up and down about it that people without colorblindness were struggling. Friends telling me I can get by with some mechanics by following the party. I might be doing it in green/purple mode. I might not. I won't know how screwed I am until I step foot into it, and I am very nervous if future fights going forward will be like this. Normal mode was a huge struggle already for me. I thought the Devs listened from Endwalker when we complained about this and it feels like they went completely backwards instead or chose to ignore everything.

Friends have suggested Reshade and other options, but I am so determined to not have to go that route because I would once again have to do a ton of EXTRA adjusting on my part just to have the same experience as them. It's exhausting. I am not asking the Devs to make this game easier (I love harder content). I just want more options so I can SEE LIKE EVERYONE ELSE.