Seriously, it's the white knights who should leave the game (not trolling)

[Valence]

Back at you.

Some people are happy with the game. They don't see problems with it the way others do. Is it that hard to understand why those people are puzzled over why the complainers don't just quit the game?

Because it's clear the game is not going to change in the way the complainers would like. The developers have their own vision for the game that they're following. As players and paying customers, we need to be willing to follow along with them. Or to leave if we don't want to pay for what we're getting.

Change doesn't need charisma. Change needs courage, and seems like a lot of posters around here don't have the courage to change games.

Back at you.

Some people are unhappy with parts of the game that are being changed constantly, in their eyes, for the worst. They still cling to the game for many different reasons, like being satisfied or entertained by other types of content, or the community, or whatever. The usual "just quit the game if you don't like it" is not only offensive but misinformed. I may be especially scathing with what SE has done with a product that I have by now probably poured more than a thousand bucks in subscription alone into, that I used to be the audience for, and that is now considering me as an inconvenient thing that they would rather discard or alienate away. I do feel that I have a right to make myself heard because a game that's been a non negligible part of my life, that I pay for, have supported for years through many other means even, is slowly being butchered for another audience.

The real issue is that a lot of happy customers feel like we, older players, are a threat to their game and enjoyment, or our existence and opinions are somehow offensive to theirs. In reality it's become exactly like politics. We do not see eye to eye on what the game should be, and just because the developers suddenly swing your way doesn't mean I'm going to shut up. "White Knights", or who the word truly is aimed at, aren't just content to "be puzzled over why complainers dont quit". White knights will consistently show up, start up ad hominem replies because they cannot actually address the points being made. White knights will bait discussions out of constructive criticism into flamebait and mudslinging. And I'm perfectly happy to accept that the other side will also show up in happy bubbly threads about the game and constantly crap over their posters in the same fits of rage, because yes it goes both ways.

[Gurgeh]

Ideally..

Nobody should leave the game... This is just needless finger pointing of "No u"

Realistically all they need to do is find a solution that benefits all categories of players, e.g., finding that middle-ground without reducing the content to a husk, relic progression in Endwalker is a perfect example of this.. Or without giving people mountains to climb.. They can reach this balance.. Stormblood, IMO, was this balance.

It's healthy for people to have a contrary thought, e.g., thinking the game is good, the issue is just solely that some people will just outright dismiss or attack, rather than actually trying to understand.. If some people merely asked or tried to prod people then everything would be much easier.. But sometimes winning an argument on the internet, or trying to 1-up someone on the internet is far, far more important than trying to have a proper discussion.. Now this isn't exclusive to one side, but it's the far bigger problem than telling 1 group of people to leave.

Lots of good points from many posts above, including about this BS being "insufferable". I'm marking that as a win. It was meant to be as insufferable as the 'white knights' tells us to just leave.
And yes 'thank you'! It is so stupid to tell people, they need to do what you want, be you, or leave. That was my point. It is the worst thing that has been going on.
Really, really unpleasant, really toxic.
"your unhappy, I don't care, F off and quit spoiling my buzz, me and my interests first!"
If the logic is stay away, (then apart form the goobers like me) why are 'white knights' (not an adequate name but its understood) coming to the forums and reading these negative posts. 'leave!' why? Because that's not how people work. And its not just my fellow goobers telling people to leave.
And that was the whole point of my post. I had an agenda, I was being a little bit manipulative. We've clearly got some seeds above that aren't going to grow. Or on other occasions one good goober deserves another.
It's not my idea of how to make friends. Influence people? It could be about 1/50. The ones that aren't influenced? Well, its my arrogance that they aren't going to be the least influenced my my post at all. Positively or negatively.

[Gurgeh]

I originally said this post wasn't a discussion it was a diatribe. But I have accidentally opened up a discussion with myself.
For most of the current problems I've held Yoshi responsible only by virtue of him having the most power and opportunity to bring about change for the good. No 'blame' involved. Just repsonsibility.
But the whole 'you should leave' schism that's going on, that was badly inflamed when idol Yoshi, declared "[if you don't like it] please play other games"
He is to 'blame' for how bad this has got.
And I do think, if he were to care about what's been going on (and frankly he may not even know) that he should make a public statement expressing
'disappointment that community are telling each other they should leave, its not an outcome he would hope for, his wish for it to cease, and apologising for the part his ill judged words have personally played in that'
He has just set such a bad example. He has emboldened.... (I'll be more diplomatic), the people who are inclined not to compromise even the smallest bit of their own well being, if they thinnk their is an other option, that better suits them or the needs of those to whom their benefits are better aligned.
Yoshi, these people admire you.
They follow you.
They listen to you.
If you tell us to F off an enjoy other games.
They are going to go "my daddy Yoshi said you should F off! So F off!"

[ovIm]

The usual "just quit the game if you don't like it" is not only offensive but misinformed. I may be especially scathing with what SE has done with a product that I have by now probably poured more than a thousand bucks in subscription alone into, that I used to be the audience for, and that is now considering me as an inconvenient thing that they would rather discard or alienate away. I do feel that I have a right to make myself heard because a game that's been a non negligible part of my life, that I pay for, have supported for years through many other means even, is slowly being butchered for another audience.

Thank you for very much for that - it encompasses my own feelings much better than I could have. Its also a fact that is so often neglected by those that say that we can leave. Of course, a live service game evolves during its life, and it grows with the players. The changes of this game for the past few years however were more often more on the puzzling side than not.

[DynnDiablos]

Get off your cross honey, someone might need the wood.

[Kazuke_Miso]

Back at you.

Some people are unhappy with parts of the game that are being changed constantly, in their eyes, for the worst. They still cling to the game for many different reasons, like being satisfied or entertained by other types of content, or the community, or whatever. The usual "just quit the game if you don't like it" is not only offensive but misinformed. I may be especially scathing with what SE has done with a product that I have by now probably poured more than a thousand bucks in subscription alone into, that I used to be the audience for, and that is now considering me as an inconvenient thing that they would rather discard or alienate away. I do feel that I have a right to make myself heard because a game that's been a non negligible part of my life, that I pay for, have supported for years through many other means even, is slowly being butchered for another audience.

The real issue is that a lot of happy customers feel like we, older players, are a threat to their game and enjoyment, or our existence and opinions are somehow offensive to theirs. In reality it's become exactly like politics. We do not see eye to eye on what the game should be, and just because the developers suddenly swing your way doesn't mean I'm going to shut up. "White Knights", or who the word truly is aimed at, aren't just content to "be puzzled over why complainers dont quit". White knights will consistently show up, start up ad hominem replies because they cannot actually address the points being made. White knights will bait discussions out of constructive criticism into flamebait and mudslinging. And I'm perfectly happy to accept that the other side will also show up in happy bubbly threads about the game and constantly crap over their posters in the same fits of rage, because yes it goes both ways.

Frankly, you should just quit the game. Because the game is dogshit and will never improve.

80% of the active characters are not even playing. They are just ERP, alts, or bots. This game is basically already dead - if you check the [forbidden stalking plugin] numbers it shows that most characters logged by LuckyBancho ain't even real people.

Vote with your wallet, and do your best to let disaster companies and studios shut down.

[Valence]

Now that's actually truly funny. Both sides actually telling me to unsub?

[Kazuke_Miso]

Now that's actually truly funny. Both sides actually telling me to unsub?

No one can force you to do what you want to do, but do you really want to spend more time and money on this cesspit? On a company that doesn't care about you?

[yesnt]

It's a bit like life. Most people would say that life is not perfect and they just deal with their circumstances - such as living in a bad neighborhood, high taxes, high bills, laws they don't agree with, products they need but that are badly designed and annoying.

This comparison fails. These are things we can not avoid. This game is an optional service that we pay for willingly. Thus, the service must be worth the money, thus, the lack of that service must be criticized. In fact, it is rather stupid to accept a bad service and even go all the way out to defend it.

[Xapapetsu]

I'll say the same thing I say about any game, if you like it, play it, if you don't, don't play it. It's as simple as that. For the white knights, constructive criticism is a good thing, it lets the devs know what's wrong with the game and allows them to make changes. For you doomers, constant hate on this game isn't helping anything and you need to take a break for your own mental health. Speak your peace and walk away until the game gives you what you want.


"We'll if I unsub I'll lose my house!" Unless you have FC house, your house is worthless, how much time do you actually spend inside your house? I know I only spend about 5 minutes per month in mine.