Seriously, it's the white knights who should leave the game (not trolling)

[Gurgeh]

I'm not trying to open a discussion with the following. This is a fire and forget diatribe in the truest sense of the word.

To the white knights:
The nature of people (humans) and how they react to stimulus, and how they behave socially at scale, that is not going to change. We are talking about genetics and instinct. We are talking about pools cultural inertia far larger than this game and your voices in it.
Unless the game changes adequately you will always have yesterday's new players, becoming tomorrow's jaded, bored, disillusioned veterans.
(If you are lucky. If you are unlucky, the new players will dry up, and then your game WILL die. I think there are many white knights who are actually fine with the game dieing, as long as it can stay their happy game until it does, because they have already reverse rationalised to themselves, that that's inevitable for every MMO. Which I agree with. The question is 'when'. WoW still isn't dieing yet. Not nearly. And it was. But they did what needed to be done. They changed, and it became a new game. My god did we learn nothing with 1.0 Vs ARR?!)

So I am quite serious in the point I am making. It is you who just need to get used to how the game is and that it makes people fedup, and that you will always have this in your community. It is the 'reality' of how XIV shapes it's community, or it is 'you' that needs to leave and 'go play other games', hopping from one game to the next, every time a game gets things wrong and the players start to complain. Because everyone gets it wrong sometimes.

Humans be humans.

Or you need to just stop complaining about people complaining (oh the irony) and stay in Island sanctuary, or keep soloing Khloes books, or standing around Limsa ostracizing the players you don't approve of, or getting back to progging ultimates with those 3trd party tools or what ever it is you've been doing for five or more years.

I'm not trying to piss you off (I just accept I will but you'll get over it because you don't respect my opinion much anyway). But I am trying to make a point that will hopefully, sow a seed in subconscious of just a few of the more mentally agile and flexible among you.
It might be that it's you that are the more resilient ones. It might that yours is the best way to lead a happy content life. But your not going to be able to make other people more resilient, and frankly you don't sound 'happy' about other people being unhappy.

Or maybe you can actually start to contribute to making things better and do a little bit of campaigning to make things better where they need to be (changing the bloody software) instead of just complaining about complaints.

But... I guess people don't change. Like I say I'm just trying to sow one or two seeds where 98 others will never grow. Making a big change needs more charisma than I have.

I doubt cider will read this properly if at all. It's too long and boring for any YouTube audience. I didn't come to the forums for you tube attention in the first place.

[CVXIV]

goober moment

[Gurgeh]

XD
I don't entirely know what that means, but I think I know enough and it makes me laugh. Because I probably agree. This is just a game, it doesn't matter, so I'm not going to bother filtering what I think. I'm just gonna keep doing stuff. Because everything we've chosen to do and not do hasn't worked so far.
One thing that DEFINITELY WILL NEVER WORK is doing nothing. As far as I can see this forum is all we have if we don't have the charisma or sufficient lack of self awareness to be a YouTuber (it never both but sometimes I think it is the other).
Oh cider, you've got bags of self awareness, and a lot of charisma. Think your vids are great. I understand you can't afford to take all our shit seriously. Keep at the forums, your a leveling perspective, you question what you see, and you keep a mind of your own while taking stuff on board. (As far as I can tell)

[Gwenkatsu]

And that's why you should never drink and post, kids

But I am trying to make a point that will hopefully, sow a seed in subconscious of just a few of the more mentally agile and flexible among you.

And if this was indeed a try at being subtle, then... well... I see a lot of space for you to improve in that category

[Jojoya]

...

The nature of people (humans) and how they react to stimulus, and how they behave socially at scale, that is not going to change.
...

Humans be humans.

...

But your not going to be able to make other people more resilient

...

Making a big change needs more charisma than I have.

Back at you.

Some people are happy with the game. They don't see problems with it the way others do. Is it that hard to understand why those people are puzzled over why the complainers don't just quit the game?

Because it's clear the game is not going to change in the way the complainers would like. The developers have their own vision for the game that they're following. As players and paying customers, we need to be willing to follow along with them. Or to leave if we don't want to pay for what we're getting.

Change doesn't need charisma. Change needs courage, and seems like a lot of posters around here don't have the courage to change games.

[NaoSen]

I'd just rather people accept that others have different thoughts on different things and behave accordingly, put context to their reason, understand the other persons point of view. This goes for criticize and defend.

If someone has attached themself to this game so hard that any negative talk against it is seen as a personal insult then that's on them, it's most definitely an unhealthy thing to make a game part of your very identity to the point where saying something bad against the game is the same or worse than saying something bad about them.

[Jeeqbit]

It is you who just need to get used to how the game is and that it makes people fedup, and that you will always have this in your community.

I'm aware of that from playing other MMORPGs. All MMORPGs have things to be negative about. The difference is always that the happy players just focus on the aspects they enjoy and that make them happy, rather than expecting everything to be perfect.

It's a bit like life. Most people would say that life is not perfect and they just deal with their circumstances - such as living in a bad neighborhood, high taxes, high bills, laws they don't agree with, products they need but that are badly designed and annoying. But many of those people just focus on the aspects of it that they do like and that make them happy, such as their friends, because the alternative is perpetual depression.

Or you need to just stop complaining about people complaining

For me personally, it's about providing scrutiny of the complaints. Conspiracy theories are a common thing these days, but if those conspiracy theorists tried to disprove their own conspiracy theories they often would. For example, the 5g thing is ridiculous. On the other hand, the Wuhan lab explanation had merit. Scrutiny of the scrutiny is important.

Instead, it is typical for humans to live in echo chambers - communities of people who share the exact same view. They perpetuate eachother's view, such that it becomes the normal and accepted viewpoint. It's made worse by websites like Facebook where they simply remove friends that don't see things the same way, or join groups where everyone thinks the same thing.

So you see, people of opposing views posting on these forums is good. Seeing things from an alternative perspective can make you consider an alternative way to perceive it that you hadn't considered because of being so deep in this echo chamber.

The problem is really when none of the posts are constructive, and don't have any depth whatsoever. Whether someone is being positive or negative, if the post lacks depth and doesn't explain why, how, bullet point issues, reasons and examples, it doesn't contribute anything really.

[Bad_Luck]

TLR
People don't change, you can’t win arguments online, OP is an insufferable douche

[Bad_Luck]

goober moment

Damn, you did my reply better

[Kaurhz]

Ideally..

Nobody should leave the game... This is just needless finger pointing of "No u"

Realistically all they need to do is find a solution that benefits all categories of players, e.g., finding that middle-ground without reducing the content to a husk, relic progression in Endwalker is a perfect example of this.. Or without giving people mountains to climb.. They can reach this balance.. Stormblood, IMO, was this balance.

It's healthy for people to have a contrary thought, e.g., thinking the game is good, the issue is just solely that some people will just outright dismiss or attack, rather than actually trying to understand.. If some people merely asked or tried to prod people then everything would be much easier.. But sometimes winning an argument on the internet, or trying to 1-up someone on the internet is far, far more important than trying to have a proper discussion.. Now this isn't exclusive to one side, but it's the far bigger problem than telling 1 group of people to leave.