The dissonance of design in Deep Dungeons

[Darkstride]

Maybe I'm mixing it up with other mobs.

Most enemies you can LoS, but Mimics will still apply Pox through walls and at a distance.

[Arohk]

Most enemies you can LoS, but Mimics will still apply Pox through walls and at a distance.

i think that is a bit of an unfair design, i remember when i died to a frog trap on floor 90+ in potd, i was fighting one bomber, got frogged and he used sef destruct. no matter how far you run away or around courners, that thing kills you instantly in the entire dungeon.

[ThurinTurambar]

i think that is a bit of an unfair design, i remember when i died to a frog trap on floor 90+ in potd, i was fighting one bomber, got frogged and he used sef destruct. no matter how far you run away or around courners, that thing kills you instantly in the entire dungeon.

Sorry to say, but its a bit of a skill issue. Floor 81-90 bombs do 70% of max hp, so you did not have a sustaining potion running or let yourself get hit when vulnerable.

Mimics and pox i believe are very fair design. While some jobs do suffer from it, its not a tragedy if it happens, but also those jobs are often rewarded with high damage output. There are very few edge cases where its truely neccessary to get rid of it (no items enchantment for example or using transformations on deep sets).

Also lets boil down what jobs truely suffer from it. Healers basicly can ignore it, red mage also. Picto can kill them before infatuation cast happens all the way to 170, sometimes further.
Summoner while vulnerable to it gets very good kiting abilities, good shield and very solid damage, which usually makes up for it.
Melees are generally more vulnerable to it, but if one was stubborn, you can live even through no items with bloodbath and additional defensives.
Sooo that leaves black mage as pretty much the only job that really suffers from it.
But thats basicly in terms of PotD.

Both HoH and EO offer you more tools to deal with pox. While in case of HoH its a bit drastic, as magicite is way to powerful to use on inconvinience of pox, it is still an option instead of using serenity to clear no items floor.
EO has demiclones, 2 of which have the ability to heal you.
So in short: Learn what can be used to deal with pox or prevent it instead of deeming it unfair.

[ThurinTurambar]

Generally the idea could be cool, but not in form of some lost actions or whatever.
I would like to see actions have additional effects that dont work on bosses, like doton applying heavy on mobs or arm's length applying slow.
There used to be a lot of poisons we could use apply status effects on mobs. Blind, paralasys, silencing, heavy etc are all present in game but underutilised.
So i think having your regular actions getting additional effects could prove very fun and would benefit deep dungeons and it would lead to more interesting defence oriented rotations.
For example if blm's ice spells applied stacks of freezing that would transform to deep freeze status if you applied several stacks fast enough. While its not optimal damage, it would give blm a powerful defense mechanism.

[Valence]

Generally the idea could be cool, but not in form of some lost actions or whatever.
I would like to see actions have additional effects that dont work on bosses, like doton applying heavy on mobs or arm's length applying slow.
There used to be a lot of poisons we could use apply status effects on mobs. Blind, paralasys, silencing, heavy etc are all present in game but underutilised.
So i think having your regular actions getting additional effects could prove very fun and would benefit deep dungeons and it would lead to more interesting defence oriented rotations.
For example if blm's ice spells applied stacks of freezing that would transform to deep freeze status if you applied several stacks fast enough. While its not optimal damage, it would give blm a powerful defense mechanism.

Yes I agree with that. That's also why I brought up the pvp model because it seems a lot more suited to deep dungeons that what pve currently offers. I'd definitely like having unique effects coming from tools beyond just "damage", rewarding players to play more tactically depending on the situations they face at any time.
Taking your BLM example you could have stuff like Wreath of Ice which is essentially an ice spikes or a life steal on xenoglossy/foul.

[Mawlzy]

Generally the idea could be cool, but not in form of some lost actions or whatever.
I would like to see actions have additional effects that dont work on bosses, like doton applying heavy on mobs or arm's length applying slow.
There used to be a lot of poisons we could use apply status effects on mobs. Blind, paralasys, silencing, heavy etc are all present in game but underutilised.
So i think having your regular actions getting additional effects could prove very fun and would benefit deep dungeons and it would lead to more interesting defence oriented rotations.
For example if blm's ice spells applied stacks of freezing that would transform to deep freeze status if you applied several stacks fast enough. While its not optimal damage, it would give blm a powerful defense mechanism.

Agreed, the current job design outside of healing (which has its own unique problems) focusses almost exclusively on dps, thereby ignoring so many cool skills/spells/effects that could be included.

I wonder why that is?

And I love the idea of defense-oriented rotations! Rather than dodge the boss, let us inflict status effects on them. Let us parry their attacks rather than running to a safe spot. Same with mobs, as you say, which in regular dungeons have been reduced to an irrelevance, and in deep dungeons are countered almost entirely by smacking them. So much design space is completely neglected.