Are MMOs DYING!?...or are we just expecting too much?

[Connor]

The reason ffxiv is ‘dying’ (or at least bedridden) can be summed by the complete absence of a single thing. Creativity

As far as I’m aware no AI can supply that (and if they did you’d get hilarious alien looking stuff like 6-finger people or bearded belly dancers)

[genuine_stranger]

The reason ffxiv is ‘dying’ (or at least bedridden) can be summed by the complete absence of a single thing. Creativity

As far as I’m aware no AI can supply that (and if they did you’d get hilarious alien looking stuff like 6-finger people or bearded belly dancers)

Oh, it certainly can be creative in writing, given the right direction.

On the visual side, though? Without heavy curation, most of it seems like somebody would create who, what I would presume, is on acid.

[ovIm]

I even showed you a game designer talk about it and an article of a major game studio admit that they’re using it for a game already. Do they not know about game development either because you don’t like what they’re saying and doing? I don’t think you’re thinking straight. Not liking to hear the truth and it not being actually true are two different things.

You are still wildly flaying things at me. So, let me help you with your confusion and let me tell you exactly WHY you are wrong and why the things you have posted are hurting your case, not helping you.

1. An increase in assets would not help FFXIV. Asset creation is not the bottleneck.
2. That youtuber is an amateur. Anyone can slap things together, but actually designing a game is a whole different process.
3. Activision cheaping out on graphics designers by letting AI create cheap slop is not indicative for anything but the possibility to reduce quality. There is no way to see if using that method was even faster or not, or how it benefited the development process, if at all. It may just have been cheaper.

While you’re not wrong in that the game does need more game designers and repeatable content, something I’ve argued for plenty in the past, it doesn't invalidate it needs more assets either.

As much as you like Colt, he’s not right, but again, if you want argue in favor of reusing assets to defend a companies bottom line none of us can help you. And it’s one of the reasons this game gets away with all the things it does.

There’s always a multitude of people defending their bad habits for everything so they don’t actually feel any need to improve. And it shows. That is self sabotage. No one but the company benefits from reusing assets but again, people defend it just go on the contrary in an argument.

I am not arguing for the reuse of assets, and if you look at my post history I am highly critical of CS3/Square Enix and their business decisions.
I am arguing that simply adding in AI generated slop textures/models would not help the development of this game because it is not where the bottleneck of the development is. When you look at how FFXIV is currently being developed, then you will see that the big problem this game has is not based on assets at all. They already have a lot of them, and they can produce them relatively easy and quick, just look at the amount of stuff on the mogstation. The issue lies with the development of the content, and a different way of creating assets will, imho, not free up enough dev ressources to make an noticeable difference.
Even if I tell ChatGPT to "create me a dungeon with 3 different pathways", that would still need to be refined and worked on and molded onto how FFXIV plays that in the end you may not even have saved time. Everyone can grab a piece of paper and draw a couple lines on it and say "yeah this is a sunken cave". You know what I mean?

Let me know if you need more clarification or if you are still confused.

You misunderstand, I am not confused, I think your arguments are not based on perceivable reality, but on make wish believe sold to you by AI bros to justify their existence.

[Ardeth]

People still want them clearly.

I just wish people would be nicer on them. So many times I've quit a game or unsubscribed for years was because of toxic players.

That's my biggest issue with mmos currently. I can't even stay in my lane anymore. They populate it and complain that nobody studied how to do the content beforehand. It's frustrating. Let me play and learn and go do your hardcore stuff. Not everyone likes metaing the fun out of everything.

[Ath192]

You are still wildly flaying things at me. So, let me help you with your confusion and let me tell you exactly WHY you are wrong and why the things you have posted are hurting your case, not helping you.

1. An increase in assets would not help FFXIV. Asset creation is not the bottleneck.
2. That youtuber is an amateur. Anyone can slap things together, but actually designing a game is a whole different process.
3. Activision cheaping out on graphics designers by letting AI create cheap slop is not indicative for anything but the possibility to reduce quality. There is no way to see if using that method was even faster or not, or how it benefited the development process, if at all. It may just have been cheaper.



I am not arguing for the reuse of assets, and if you look at my post history I am highly critical of CS3/Square Enix and their business decisions.
I am arguing that simply adding in AI generated slop textures/models would not help the development of this game because it is not where the bottleneck of the development is. When you look at how FFXIV is currently being developed, then you will see that the big problem this game has is not based on assets at all. They already have a lot of them, and they can produce them relatively easy and quick, just look at the amount of stuff on the mogstation. The issue lies with the development of the content, and a different way of creating assets will, imho, not free up enough dev ressources to make an noticeable difference.
Even if I tell ChatGPT to "create me a dungeon with 3 different pathways", that would still need to be refined and worked on and molded onto how FFXIV plays that in the end you may not even have saved time. Everyone can grab a piece of paper and draw a couple lines on it and say "yeah this is a sunken cave". You know what I mean?




You misunderstand, I am not confused, I think your arguments are not based on perceivable reality, but on make wish believe sold to you by AI bros to justify their existence.

I think you are still confused as what I'm arguing for and the one wildly making claims. You even admit you don't know, and just think AI doesn't speed up the process due to your own illogical bias.

To directly counter all your points in your list I will present you arguments of why they are all wrong or just assumptions.

1. If assets are not a bottleneck, they wouldn't have a problem creating unique armor sets for each dungeon, assets for Viera/hrothgar hat models that account for their anatomical differences, and assets that can be used as rewards for the failed Criterion dungeons. Which failed, due to lack of assets. The rewards weren't there to justify running the content making it DOA. This was directly witnessed by the success of Chaotic raids, which were run WIDLEY due to the assets that were used as rewards.

2. That youtuber is not an amateur. An ounce of knowledge or research into him would tell you as much. His own BIO on youtube says the following: "Welcome to my channel! I'm Rafał Obrębski, a Game Developer with over 8 years of experience in the AAA gaming industry. Here, you'll find in-depth analyses of recently released games, deep dives into game design and production, and insights into the tools shaping the world of video game creation. "

- If you can't be bothered to look at a bio in 5 seconds and spit out lies how can anything you say be trusted? You are just making things up because it suits you. liar.

3. Activision Embracing AI is indicative of the usefulness of AI tools that do save time on resources and enable faster development of games, which in turn leads to more content, which is a problem in this game. If it Is just cheaper, which is your worst assumption, it is still a benefit to the development process because more development can be done with the same budget. Your entire statement contradicts itself

It is incredibly ignorant and tribalistic to fear innovation and creative uses of new tools. During the entire human history technology has been used to enable people to do more for less, and this has led to an explosion of people doing MORE with their time and budgets. Not LESS. People are constantly afraid of change and "losing" when automation and technology has done nothing but led to people gaining in every possible sense.

We don't look at our highly modernized world today and go: "Jeez, people certainly were better off back in the medieval ages when everything was manual". It stands to all logical reason that allowing people to do things faster and cheaper will result in them doing MORE for the game. And we would benefit from it.

[CuteBucket]

I clicked in here to see what the discussion of JSH's video is, and instead its just one super indignant person trying to defend AI art against everyone else in the thread with "u mad bro?" tier arguments.

Yeah, guess I shouldn't have expected much else out of the forums.

[genuine_stranger]

I clicked in here to see what the discussion of JSH's video is, and instead its just one super indignant person trying to defend AI art against everyone else in the thread with "u mad bro?" tier arguments.

Yeah, guess I shouldn't have expected much else out of the forums.

People can be mad and jaded all they want to be, use of AI and doing creative work with it will be implemented in the professional field exceptionally fast. Some people will throw an ego-based tantrum, but as long as the presented work is good enough for the receiving audience, they won't care whether it is created by a human or an AI tool.

It's just a help tool which makes things more easy and accessible for a wider array of people to be more creative. Of course, some will rely on it too much and face-plant, but as those tools get more sophisticated, they will make a significant difference in the quality of a creative piece. Be it a movie, series, or a game.

[Kaurhz]

AI will solve some problems with this game... But the game just has so many fundamental problems that really won't be solved with AI. . .

And that will only drag the quality down anyway.

[Kohashi]

And this is why executives at Ubisoft, Activision or EA have no issue treating costumers like drones who deserve no more than mass produced soulless content from the machine without any care for quality or artistry. Because some of you listen to some generic bombastic AI trash song and think it's "good enough" and just gobble it up. People like you, with no respect for the artistry and the skill involved with making games have no right to ever complain about the current state of gaming.

For shame.

AI can only replace mediocrity. If your work is replaced by an AI that is actually not all that advanced to begin with, perhaps you need to take a step back and re-evaluate your options and plans.

AI should be used as a tool to enhance creativity and work together with humans to produce a better end result. Since the industrial revolution started, humans have always been replaced with machines, and thank god they did because many of those jobs were also very high risk, or boring and repetitive.

[DPZ2]

If you can't dethrone the king, why even try? If you're not trying to BE the best, why would you even try to do any of those things you discuss?

Why bother to write books or create movies or write songs or create art if you can't "dethrone the king"?

People do those things because they have something to say and a medium to say it in. Whether it becomes number 1 or not is irrelevant. It's a nice bonus if it attracts more attention, but that is not a requirement for the creation of the work.

It is as true with video games as it is with art, with one exception. The goal in the video game industry is to create something that first and foremost makes a profit.