Wow, Dawntrail was bad

[Exmo]

I thought Dawntrail was pretty good. The arguments against it here pretty much fall flat for me. I found no problem with the pacing in the final zone because the game never actually signaled it as a race against time, the momentum going into the zone was compatible with the momentum held throughout it. Expecting the story to suddenly change tact at the eleventh hour and no longer care about the peoples and cultures of the places we visit... it requires either a fundamental misunderstanding of the narrative or an expectation of moral absolutism that would have been unprecedented in the expansion.

[Supersnow845]

I thought Dawntrail was pretty good. The arguments against it here pretty much fall flat for me. I found no problem with the pacing in the final zone because the game never actually signaled it as a race against time, the momentum going into the zone was compatible with the momentum held throughout it. Expecting the story to suddenly change tact at the eleventh hour and no longer care about the peoples and cultures of the places we visit... it requires either a fundamental misunderstanding of the narrative or an expectation of moral absolutism that would have been unprecedented in the expansion.

You don’t see a pacing problem with Sphene taking the key and going “now it’s time to kill you all” suddenly becoming “let’s eat ice cream and go on a gondola ride because old Spheney is bad at maths”?

Just because the writers “explain” a pacing change doesn’t mean it actually makes any sense

[Mondschnee]

I found no problem with the pacing in the final zone because the game never actually signaled it as a race against time, the momentum going into the zone was compatible with the momentum held throughout it. Expecting the story to suddenly change tact at the eleventh hour and no longer care about the peoples and cultures of the places we visit... it requires either a fundamental misunderstanding of the narrative or an expectation of moral absolutism that would have been unprecedented in the expansion.

It's you who doesn't understand the concept of proposition and reception at a fundamental level. It's not about what the story tells you or wants you to feel, it's about player experience. You can tell players to think a certain way all you want, if they are not convinced the reception isn't gonna be good. If you enjoyed it, good for you, but making ignorant and arrogant comments about people just not understanding the story isn't the strong argument you think it is, in fact it highlights a problem contrary to your own belief.

[Exmo]

You don’t see a pacing problem with Sphene taking the key and going “now it’s time to kill you all” suddenly becoming “let’s eat ice cream and go on a gondola ride because old Spheney is bad at maths”?

Just because the writers “explain” a pacing change doesn’t mean it actually makes any sense

Yep there was no problem there because the narrative didn't actually go like that at all.

It's you who doesn't understand the concept of proposition and reception at a fundamental level. It's not about what the story tells you or wants you to feel, it's about player experience. You can tell players to think a certain way all you want, if they are not convinced the reception isn't gonna be good. If you enjoyed it, good for you, but making ignorant and arrogant comments about people just not understanding the story isn't the strong argument you think it is, in fact it highlights a problem contrary to your own belief.

Wow you're rude. Fortunately I have a policy for dealing with comments like yours.

[Mondschnee]

Wow you're rude. Fortunately I have a policy for dealing with comments like yours.

I'm rude for making a counter argument while using your own rhetoric and calling you out for looking down on players who didn't like the story as much as you did? Okay. :thumbsup:

[Supersnow845]

Yep there was no problem there because the narrative didn't actually go like that at all.


Wow you're rude. Fortunately I have a policy for dealing with comments like yours.

How did the narrative go then

[Carin-Eri]

I thought Dawntrail was pretty good. The arguments against it here pretty much fall flat for me. I found no problem with the pacing in the final zone because the game never actually signaled it as a race against time, the momentum going into the zone was compatible with the momentum held throughout it. Expecting the story to suddenly change tact at the eleventh hour and no longer care about the peoples and cultures of the places we visit... it requires either a fundamental misunderstanding of the narrative or an expectation of moral absolutism that would have been unprecedented in the expansion.

Agreed.

Although I will say that I, personally, think they went a little too far off-course in that final zone; I recall realising that I'd pretty much forgotten about the whole 'Messo terminal countdown' thing from some point after canal town until we reached the point before we had to say goodbye to Cahciua.

[Exmo]

Agreed.

Although I will say that I, personally, think they went a little too far off-course in that final zone; I recall realising that I'd pretty much forgotten about the whole 'Messo terminal countdown' thing from some point after canal town until we reached the point before we had to say goodbye to Cahciua.

That's fair. It was backgrounded quite heavily. Personally I didn't mind that - if it had been more prominent I think it could have interfered with the personal stories being told. How one deals with aging, the march of time, the loss of one's parents, are things that we all face - most of us without also trying to save the world. But I get where you're coming from with finding it was too subdued.