Re: Regarding the Use of Third-Party Programs and Player Safety

[MisterNublet]

If the plugin does not change anything, there is no harm in removing it if it concerns so many players.

I never argued otherwise. In fact, I've even said they should fix it.

Should the coding been as half-arsed as it is currently? Absolutely not and it should be fixed. But this isn't some massive breach in personal data and security that everyone is making it out to be.

I've seen comments stating they should remove the current Blacklist feature until they fix it, which is baffling as it still currently still provides protection against stalking as the plugin cannot bypass someone blacklists.

Doesn't matter if you think that's relevant or not, but acting like leaving gamers in distress is okay is not the vibe. SE literally changed the Sage icon because the holes were so concerning for a handful of people, but this plugin encouraging stalking is okay? Mmmh... no it isn't. It really isn't.

I originally asked how this plugin made stalking worse, considering the Blacklist feature already solves the issue of stalking for the most part as the plugin cannot just deactivate someone's Blacklist.

I received exaggerated claims, that somehow this will lead to being doxxed IRL. If someone missed Yoshi-P's statement, or haven't looked into/been told what the plugin does, they might think the situation is worse/dire than it actually is. Either the responses are being dishonest because they don't know better themselves and their responses are based on feels/emotions, or they're being disingenuous and trying to fear-monger.

Stalking is never okay. Use the Blacklist feature, it still works as intended.

[yesnt]

responses are based on feels/emotions

The whole topic of stalking is of course based on "feels/emotions", otherwise people could just laugh it off and move on, but it's obviously deeper than that and heavily rooted in causing distress in the victims. What is your point of argueing? Do you care to understand people or do you just want to make people feel ridiculous for their very real concerns? You are not helpful, nor superior or whatever the fuck you are trying to prove.

[Clockworks]

I never argued otherwise. In fact, I've even said they should fix it.



I've seen comments stating they should remove the current Blacklist feature until they fix it, which is baffling as it still currently still provides protection against stalking as the plugin cannot bypass someone blacklists.



I originally asked how this plugin made stalking worse, considering the Blacklist feature already solves the issue of stalking for the most part as the plugin cannot just deactivate someone's Blacklist.

I received exaggerated claims, that somehow this will lead to being doxxed IRL. If someone missed Yoshi-P's statement, or haven't looked into/been told what the plugin does, they might think the situation is worse/dire than it actually is. Either the responses are being dishonest because they don't know better themselves and their responses are based on feels/emotions, or they're being disingenuous and trying to fear-monger.

Stalking is never okay. Use the Blacklist feature, it still works as intended.

Stalking is never okay. Use the Blacklist feature, it still works as intended.

No it doesnt.

[MisterNublet]

The whole topic of stalking is of course based on "feels/emotions",

Still have to use logic and reasoning, or we wash away the meaning of the words.

otherwise people could just laugh it off and move on,

Which people have already begun to. This thread has practically died off.

but it's obviously deeper than that and heavily rooted in causing distress in the victims.

Having people act like the plugin has completely removed any benefit or usefulness of the currently Blacklist feature doesn't do them any favors either.

What is your point of argueing? Do you care to understand people or do you just want to make people feel ridiculous for their very real concerns? You are not helpful, nor superior or whatever the fuck you are trying to prove.

I was trying to understand if this plugin has actually caused stalking to become this massive issue suddenly and how so, or if the FFXIV playerbase is being its usual self.

I have my answer.

No it doesnt.

Then tell me how it doesn't. I'm actually curious.

[Clockworks]

Still have to use logic and reasoning, or we wash away the meaning of the words.



Which people have already begun to. This thread has practically died off.



Having people act like the plugin has completely removed any benefit or usefulness of the currently Blacklist feature doesn't do them any favors either.



I was trying to understand if this plugin has actually caused stalking to become this massive issue suddenly and how so, or if the FFXIV playerbase is being its usual self.

I have my answer.



Then tell me how it doesn't. I'm actually curious.

Which people have already begun to. This thread has practically died off.

People moved on just like with every single issue in FFXIV because the devs quite literally dont care about anything at all, that's not the "flex" you're making it to be, it just means people give up on SE every single time for every single issue.

Having people act like the plugin has completely removed any benefit or usefulness of the currently Blacklist feature doesn't do them any favors either.

It solved one problem and added another that is just as bad, but congratulations I guess ?

I was trying to understand if this plugin has actually caused stalking to become this massive issue suddenly and how so, or if the FFXIV playerbase is being its usual self.

I have my answer.

It fixed nothing, that's where the problem is, it fixed one thing and added another thing that it just as much of a problem.

[Kaurhz]

I would say it is 'working as intended'...

But, that 'intended' outcome isn't really a good one by any stretch of the imagination. A good blacklist system should not come at the expense of reasonable privacy measures, and as far as reasonable privacy measures goes, this one is acting like they were in a competition to see how bad they could make such a system.

There is 'benefit' to it, but IMO for me personally that benefit does not outweigh the risks involved with sending out an account ID in raw form.

I would say this thread is as a result of apathy more than anything else.. People are just coming to terms with the fact that the developers view player/online privacy as a serious afterthought. Which of all outcomes this is probably the worst.. Both for them and for the players.. Mainly because it shows people are just giving up, and then because the developers are probably going to get the brilliant idea that this is an acceptable/good implementation just because 'it works'. Eventually someone will develop a tool far worse than this, or will take this development to a newer height, at which point it just creates an unsafe experience, and all of this spawning from their inability to take reasonable measures.

[Clockworks]

I would say it is 'working as intended'...

But, that 'intended' outcome isn't really a good one by any stretch of the imagination. A good blacklist system should not come at the expense of reasonable privacy measures, and as far as reasonable privacy measures goes, this one is acting like they were in a competition to see how bad they could make such a system.

There is 'benefit' to it, but IMO for me personally that benefit does not outweigh the risks involved with sending out an account ID in raw form.

I would say this thread is as a result of apathy more than anything else.. People are just coming to terms with the fact that the developers view player/online privacy as a serious afterthought. Which of all outcomes this is probably the worst.. Both for them and for the players.. Mainly because it shows people are just giving up, and then because the developers are probably going to get the brilliant idea that this is an acceptable/good implementation just because 'it works'. Eventually someone will develop a tool far worse than this, or will take this development to a newer height, at which point it just creates an unsafe experience, and all of this spawning from their inability to take reasonable measures.

Sure you can call it working as intended because technically it works, however its a disaster.

[Kaurhz]

Sure you can call it working as intended because technically it works, however its a disaster.

That's what I mean.. It's 'working as intended', if the definition of this is expressly based on it just 'working' and in a vacuum, without considering extrinsic factors like someone creating a tool that undermines the very system they opted to create.

[yesnt]

Still have to use logic and reasoning, or we wash away the meaning of the words.

There is logic and reasoning in taking people's feelings seriously, otherwise I hope you never have a relationship to an other human being. People have killed themselves because of harassment and bullying, if that is not enough logic for you, then idk. If you fail to understand, you are part of the problem.

Plus, I don't think anyone here will talk about their personal stalker in a public forum under the name of one of their characters, because that's how you lose this game.

[Naphtalia]

I never argued otherwise. In fact, I've even said they should fix it.



I've seen comments stating they should remove the current Blacklist feature until they fix it, which is baffling as it still currently still provides protection against stalking as the plugin cannot bypass someone blacklists.



I originally asked how this plugin made stalking worse, considering the Blacklist feature already solves the issue of stalking for the most part as the plugin cannot just deactivate someone's Blacklist.

I received exaggerated claims, that somehow this will lead to being doxxed IRL. If someone missed Yoshi-P's statement, or haven't looked into/been told what the plugin does, they might think the situation is worse/dire than it actually is. Either the responses are being dishonest because they don't know better themselves and their responses are based on feels/emotions, or they're being disingenuous and trying to fear-monger.

Stalking is never okay. Use the Blacklist feature, it still works as intended.

On the topic of doxxing, it's actually not extremely hard to accomplish (even moreso if the person isn't very security aware). The plugin might not directly spit out someone's information but it does allow for people to continuously keep tabs on someone (stalking) and then use outside methods (external link to something that grabs your IP for example) to get that information.

Blacklist is also not properly functional as it should allow for all of your characters to be off limits to any characters registered to the service account you blocked.