Feedback for Summoner

[Khryseis_Astra]

Curious : How would that look like different from what we have now? Because if I'm not mistaken, SMN already gets to summon a new primal every 4-5 GCDs, with most of them starting with a rather big skill effect. What would you change in that regard to make it "feel good" more "like you are calling down primals"? Having Titan/Ifrit/Garuda come down do their mega blasts every GCD would look rather silly, get old really fast, and would be rather irritating (hi, RDM LB3). Or when you say "feel good as if calling down primals", are you talking just about dps numbers?

Not sure about the OP, but working in Levi, Shiva and Ramuh for a full elemental cast of gem summons would make current SMN damn near perfect for me. I think having only the same 3 gems in between 4 demi phases now (2 of which are both Solar Bahamut) can make it feel a bit repetitive. I like the way the rotation flows, but I want more summons.

[Carighan]

Not sure about the OP, but working in Levi, Shiva and Ramuh for a full elemental cast of gem summons would make current SMN damn near perfect for me. I think having only the same 3 gems in between 4 demi phases now (2 of which are both Solar Bahamut) can make it feel a bit repetitive. I like the way the rotation flows, but I want more summons.

Yeah same.

Just give me a second "set" of minor summons. I'd be alright if they alternate, for my dream implementation give me a random pull each time and I can see the moment I start the major summon what I'll have for my minors afterwards so I'm mentally prepared.

Extra bonus points if they are slotted into "types" and the randomness is "per type" not "per whole set", so I can do stuff like get Titan + Leviathan + Shiva, but then next cycle Ramuh + Ifrit + Shiva, etc. If each of these has slightly different mechanics, that'd be one hell of a variety roulette, and also be perfectly fitting for the low-APM playstyle overall.

[fulminating]

It probably would cause a few issues, but deleting the 1min demi would give ~105s, or 7 15s slots to fill with more summons. I still feel very vindicated by the state of smn, but this should probably help it feel less on rails. It would probably want some kind of skill chain/magic burst lite optimisation built in, but short of mimicking monk and the nadias I don’t have any suggestions.

[Carighan]

It probably would cause a few issues, but deleting the 1min demi would give ~105s, or 7 15s slots to fill with more summons. I still feel very vindicated by the state of smn, but this should probably help it feel less on rails. It would probably want some kind of skill chain/magic burst lite optimisation built in, but short of mimicking monk and the nadias I don’t have any suggestions.

Don't need to do that, albeit if they ever got something like 9-12 minor summons, you can select your set of three (so long as it's 1 slow + 1 normal + 1 fast), and each selection leads to a different Demi but they only differ in utility skill(s) not damage output, that'd be interesting. No clue how to do that without a custom element replacing the UI hotbars though, although that in itself would also be awesome.

[mallleable]

The most simple fix to SMN that they can do right now is just slap 1.5 to 2 second cast times on all summons. It will mean all the summon's opening signature attack can hit way harder, and it will make SMN feel more like a caster again.

[Ggwppino]

The most simple fix to SMN that they can do right now is just slap 1.5 to 2 second cast times on all summons. It will mean all the summon's opening signature attack can hit way harder, and it will make SMN feel more like a caster again.

unfortunately, given how the summoning works in implementation, it is not feasible, unless we send all the times adrift. If we did that, it would mean that the summon would take 1.5/2 seconds longer to disappear, making the carbuncle even more useless by practically reducing its window to 0, unless we reduce the windows of the various summons. One way to make it more caster would be to introduce casts on titan at 1.5 and on Bahamut. However, introducing a resource management system that allows you to have mobility when needed, like the one present in shB. unfortunately for the new smn there is nothing that can be done to fix it, except reconsidering everything.

[Carighan]

Yeah but I mean that wouldn't be a big deal, as having carby out for 2s less just means 1 less GCD in which you can apple the shield to yourself, it's not like Carby does anything else for us any more.

But more importantly, while making us marginally less mobile it'd not actually change any damage or so since 2s < GCD-duration.

If we want to do such a "simple" fix, I propose:

* Reduce each minor summon by 1 charge.
* Make each minor summon a 2-stage cast: We cast for 2.5s (yes, full GCD!), at the end of this the summon appears, now a 3.5s (!) castbar starts that we can override with another spell, but if we don't we deal the superattack by that minor (their on-summon attack is now this) at the end of the 3.5s. We can also walk during the cast, Bard-PvP-style, slowed.
* Massively increase the damage of that on-summon attack to make up for all the lost time, all this potency will now by folded into it, so probably 1600-2000 potency each, but that'd actually feel really like an FF summon, no? Bonus points if they deal 100% AoE damage despite being balanced for single target. Extra bonus if they're mechanically distinct, like Ifrit dealing its damage as a 15s DoT or so.
* Total cycle time remains the same, as charges are removed to make space for these new walking casts + there's one Ruin III to drop at the end anyways (but again, all potency is retained, just folded into the on-summon attacks).

[Ggwppino]

Yeah but I mean that wouldn't be a big deal, as having carby out for 2s less just means 1 less GCD in which you can apple the shield to yourself, it's not like Carby does anything else for us any more.

Delaying the animations means that instead of ending 6.5 seconds from when you pressed the summon button, they end 8.5 seconds from pressing the summon button (clearly if we consider that the cast lasts 2 seconds)
practically a summoner could have a useful window to mitigate right with ifrit but only if you use all your casts first.

Well, if carbuncle lose its mitigation, and turn actually in a useless dummy (respecting the carbuncle fantasy, right?), then, there would be no harm in adding casts at the summons.

[ArtaVallian]

Ifrit's one of the only things that add a hint of complexity to the job. You hit it, you're now committed to 2 long casts and a gap closer with a close range follow-up. It and Garuda's puddle occasionally makes you stop and think about what order you should be using the summons

Could've made the rework much more interesting had they added more summons with different limitations like that

I've heard the hard casts in Ifrit phase may not even do enough damage to warrant using them, due to how much cast time they have. A friend of mine who does Ultimates says he's seen several SMNs in his groups just use the hard cast ruin (Ruin 3?) instead because it gives more damage for the time investment. I really want them to fix that, if nothing else, because knowing that, the skill feels useless to me, now.

[Supersnow845]

I've heard the hard casts in Ifrit phase may not even do enough damage to warrant using them, due to how much cast time they have. A friend of mine who does Ultimates says he's seen several SMNs in his groups just use the hard cast ruin (Ruin 3?) instead because it gives more damage for the time investment. I really want them to fix that, if nothing else, because knowing that, the skill feels useless to me, now.

Whoever told you ifrit’s hardcasts are a DPS loss has literally no idea what they are talking about

The only “kernel of truth” in that statement is that in its launch state in EW ifrit had a lower PPS (potency per second) than titan who is easier to execute due to being all instants so they buffed ifrit but even before that buff ifrit was always a gain over ruin 3.

The only time you shouldn’t be using primal abilities over ruin 1/2/3 is a wonky level range in the 50’s and 60’s where garuda’s aspected ruin 2’s are a loss over just casting ruin 2