Chaotic is midcore, in case you were wondering

[Xrono_Amber]

They cry they are lacking content, you point out the world of raiding is awaiting them to jump into at their leisure with vast amounts of content, considering they didn't touch any of it, and they cry it's too difficult and time consuming.
...
For an MMO thats described as a ThemePark MMO, you sure have a majority of people that only like to get on 1-2 rides. That's simply the truth.

Or maybe it's because they also abandon most of attractions to rot away while relatively regular providing updates to just 2 of them. First being usual dungeons, trials and raids, things for casuals. Second being extremes, savages and ultimates for hardcore audience.

I did both of them. What other rides I supposed to take at this point? Gold Saucer with recent addition of Blunderville after....how many years? Oh, also with voice-acting to mahjong. It's so stale it's actually kinda impressive. In a bad sort of way. And it can be the perfect place to not only test new animations and expressions, like they do with Manderville quest-line, but also just add new mini-games for people. Hell, just bring mini-games from inn's toy box and chess with checkers and it's already would be better, never mind updates to chocobo racing or lord of verminion.

And you might say "why they would bother with it if not many players interact with it in the first place", to which I would reply "people don't interact with it precisely because Square Enix don't put enough effort in it." PVP also was pretty much dead before relatively recent updates to it.

FF14 described as a theme park, yes. And if you're a new player, you have lot of things to do. But even in this case, most "rides" you can take will not change anymore. And new ones take painfully long to come out. Why we don't have new exploration zone from the start of the expansion is beyond me.

I do enjoy extremes and savages. But I already cleared current tier, for example. Cleared it a good while ago. What other rides I supposed to take in this case? We need more content, both casual and hardcore. And something in the middle, because why the hell not.

[AyumiCosplayGlam]

Or maybe it's because they also abandon most of attractions to rot away while relatively regular providing updates to just 2 of them. First being usual dungeons, trials and raids, things for casuals. Second being extremes, savages and casuals for hardcore audience.

I did both of them. What other rides I supposed to take at this point? Gold Saucer with recent addition of Blunderville after....how many years? Oh, also with voice-acting to mahjong. It's so stale it's actually kinda impressive. In a bad dort of way. And this place can be the perfect place to not only test new animations and expressions, like they do with Manderville quest-line, but also just add new mini-games for people. Hell, just bring mini-games from inn's toy box and chess with checkers and it's already would be better, never mind updates to chocobo racing or lord of verminion.

And you might say "why they would bother with it if not many players interact with it in the first place", to which I would reply "people don't interact with it precisely because Square Enix don't put enough effort in it." PVP also was pretty much dead before relatively recent updates to it.

FF14 described as a theme park, yes. And if you're a new player, you have lot of things to do. But even in this case, most "rides" you can take will not change anymore. And new ones take painfully long to come out. Why we don't have new exploration zone from the start of the expansion is beyond me.

I do enjoy extremes and savages. But I already cleared current tier, for example. Cleared it a good while ago. What other rides I supposed to take in this case? We need more content, both casual and hardcore. And something in the middle, because why the hell not.

Its a shame we dont scream at them for Blitzball in the Gold Saucer for like 5-7 years...oh wait we do. Best we got was a "no".

[AllenThyl]

That isn't what you said at all though.

Your reading comprehension is simply abysmal, which is in fact a problem that plagues many of these discussion within this community. The developers in the live letter categorized the difficulty of CODCAR as "savage level", yet a sizeable amount of the community was somehow under the impression, that it would be even less difficult than EX. A fact that was essentially nothing but wishful thinking.

And all these "midcore" discussions are also plagued with the community's general inability to actually express what they really want, but more importantly, WHY they want it. The argument that was made was this: "What "complainers" want is more content that falls between normal and ex trial difficulty.". And when I pointed out that older EX fulfill these fulfill these requirements (due to a combination of gear progression and echo), then suddenly the content has to be "current", with 0 explanation of why that is now important, or what "current" even means. I mean, the DT EX1 and EX2 are now easier than when they launched, people now have access to gear 30 ilvl higher than what was available at launch, and you get some echo. Are these not "current" anymore? And why does "currentness" matter, when the loot that dropped there was only relevant in the very short time span when they were the only available high end content?

The whole "we want more difficult content" is nothing but a smokescreen. It's a dishonest requirement. Because throughout all these discussions, it becomes increasingly clear that the "midcores" don't want more difficult content that they need to clear, they want more difficult content that others can clear for them, while taking credit (and more importantly, the rewards)for "beating" harder content. Because that is precisely the consequences of encounter design where a small group of people can "salvage" the run, as it's euphemistically called. It's why the body check of CODCAR is so negatively received, because it means that everyone has to properly do the mechanics. In other words, all the "midcore" content that is always oh so wished for, is basically EX content, but tuned for undersized parties. A minority of the party with the chops for progging hard fights are responsible for whether or not the fight is cleared, while everyone else is basically decoration, and only make an encounter go faster.

The FF14 community has a major attitude problem when it comes to participation in any battle content. So long as it's "cleared", there is very little self-reflection done, much less a steady interest in self-improvement. Not a day goes by when I don't have to ask at least 1 dps in SB+ dungeons to use their AoE abilities. Not even their correct rotation or 2 min buffs and all that, just basic AoE. Why would there even be so many people in the first place, especially without sprout icons and several jobs at lvl 100? Because for the community, "clearing" is good enough, even if it takes longer than with trusts who are deliberately tuned to be worse than the worst imaginable player party. This whole "there is no content between normal and EX, which means I have 0 opportunity to learn how to do harder content" is a self-soothing lie.

If the community wants content that has complex mechanics but only personal consequences, with the encounters being tuned for undersized parties, then it needs to ask for that. Not make up some nebulous batch of requirements just because many people can't face the fact that they aren't actually as good at the game as they imagine themselves to be.

[Lilapop]

snip

And my reading comprehension still tops yours? I haven't seen a single post of anyone asking for a 24 person Savage trial. People wanted more difficult content, people wanted a more difficult Alliance raid. That isn't what the Chaotic turned out to be. The only difference between it and a normal raid and it's Savage equal is the 24 person player count. As far as undersized parties, was it not literally said that the chaotic would be beatable with undersized parties too?

People can't even agree as to what midcore is at this point; heck, starting to see some people call current tier Savage and Ultimates in general as "midcore." A lot of it is people not knowing what they want, but knowing they want something different which if that's the echo chamber, this will get a lot worse before it gets better, if it does at all. Not to mention the blind faith that the exploration zone will be the "casual content that will redeem dawntrail."

Yes... the clear is ever the goal. This isn't new. People see a cleared and can probably do it again, so why would anyone choose to "self-reflect" if their only goal is a clear? If someone clears, they know they can clear, and knowing they won't personally wipe 8 other people because their small toe is on the wrong pixel, there is literally no motivation for self improvement. Not saying this is cool or good, but that's how it is. I agree that people could be more specific as to what exactly they want out of future encounters, but I don't think anyone asked for the Chaotic as it is now, but you can correct me if I'm wrong.

[Havenchild]

people wanted a more difficult Alliance raid. That isn't what the Chaotic turned out to be.

That's exactly what Chaotic IS though.

Probably shouldn't claim to have better reading comprehension then have these two comments right next to each other.

[DiaDeem]

I think I posted this elsewhere, but the issue is that newer content in the game has only two modes:

- Walk in the park/run half asleep
- Needs guide and/or static to even try

There's no middle ground. Call it whatever you wanna call it, but as long as there's no in-between, it doesn't really make a difference what word you use to describe content in the game.

[Supersnow845]

I think I posted this elsewhere, but the issue is that content in the game has only two modes

- Walk in the park/run half asleep
- Needs guide and/or static to even try

There's no middle ground. Call it whatever you wanna call it, but as long as there's no in-between, it doesn't really make a difference what word you use to describe content in the game.

This is what it boils down to

It doesn’t matter if you consider EX midcore or not because it’s not the problem people have

If you wanna say “what you should be asking for is casual content to not be as easy as it is” then sure but that’s still not really the issue

We can all see where the biggest “gap” in content is it doesn’t matter what you actually call said content

[Buttobi]

And all these "midcore" discussions are also plagued with the community's general inability to actually express what they really want, but more importantly, WHY they want it. The argument that was made was this: "What "complainers" want is more content that falls between normal and ex trial difficulty.". And when I pointed out that older EX fulfill these fulfill these requirements (due to a combination of gear progression and echo), then suddenly the content has to be "current", with 0 explanation of why that is now important, or what "current" even means. I mean, the DT EX1 and EX2 are now easier than when they launched, people now have access to gear 30 ilvl higher than what was available at launch, and you get some echo. Are these not "current" anymore? And why does "currentness" matter, when the loot that dropped there was only relevant in the very short time span when they were the only available high end content?

Brother, I do not think it is that crazy of a request to have all new content fulfill this difficulty curve. If you are going to ask me "why", it is a matter as simple as there always being new content made for everyone. Why do the people that want normal or ex trial difficulty content get new stuff almost every single patch while the people who want something in between have to play scraps from old patches to even get to play the content they want? Old content will always be more dead than current content. Yes, it is possible to make groups for older content but the reality is that new content always has dozens more groups so it is easier to play it in a reasonable time frame. So yes, content being "current" is absolutely important so telling people to go play old shit is not the solution.

This is a live service game and if you are caught up with the content then it would be nice to have the current content appeal to you as well. I can not believe how adamant you are on telling people to just play old content unsynced/overgeared if they want content that was designed to be played on patch for the reasons stated above. It is super disingenuous and just feels like you are trying to be contrarian at this point. Give me some actual good arguments as to why the content being current does not matter. It matters for player activity and for players who are caught up with content.

Also why are you constantly mentioning that players can not accept that they are bad? Where in this thread has anyone who requests this gap to be filled claimed they are good at the game? It is completely irrelevant to the discussion. You are making up an imaginary forum user that claims they are good at the game but do not want to admit it, so they want midcore content?

[Valence]

Also why are you constantly mentioning that players can not accept that they are bad? Where in this thread has anyone who requests this gap to be filled claimed they are good at the game? It is completely irrelevant to the discussion. You are making up an imaginary forum user that claims they are good at the game but do not want to admit it, so they want midcore content?

Insecurity.

[Mawlzy]

That's exactly what Chaotic IS though.

Probably shouldn't claim to have better reading comprehension then have these two comments right next to each other.

Surely chaotic is a trial?