Square Enix now threatens to send players to jail for criticizing their employees

[Aidorouge]

Nobody is getting banned because they're complaining about Viera hats unless they're also making vile toxic comments toward the devs in the same breath. Again, people concerned about this policy are clearly dog whistling that they want to be able to tell the devs to off themselves over every little grievance with no repercussions. Any decent human being has nothing to worry about.

I'm pretty sure I didn't suggest that any devs should "off themselves" with my topic about the lack of casual content in Dawntrail, yet there's just cause to believe it could get nuked and I'll get in trouble for it because I still had the audacity to call Yoshi-P a liar and suggest Square-Enix doesn't care anywhere near as much as some people want to think.

I mean, a recent topic talking about the blacklist privacy issue JUST GOT DELETED and the only thing that topic did was warn people about it and explain what it was doing, yet they clearly didn't like the idea of a topic floating around making them look woefully incompetent about people's privacy with the way they designed it. We didn't even get the courtesy of a GM popping in before or after the deletion to assure us it was being looked into, just a quick bodybag dump into the river because there's "nothing to see here".

[Yshnal]

Allowing people to have free reign to continue their inappropriate behavior because you're afraid banning them will make them angrier is a pretty nonsensical policy.



Nobody is getting banned because they're complaining about Viera hats unless they're also making vile toxic comments toward the devs in the same breath. Again, people concerned about this policy are clearly dog whistling that they want to be able to tell the devs to off themselves over every little grievance with no repercussions. Any decent human being has nothing to worry about.

Calls people worried about this "very toxic individuals", then proceeds to use this image to reply to someone that was being respectful and reasonable. I'm not even offended, just amused at the irony.

Anyway, nowhere I said that there should be free reign for everyone. As I said in my post, what I want is for SE to legally prosecute those people. But banning them without doing this will effectively result in their behaviour getting worse, and everyone knows that. We're talking about people that can't restrain themselves at all, after all, and anyone with common sense will tell you that the potential result "after touching their precious videogame" would be this one.

In regards to nobody getting banned for just complaining and criticising, would you put your neck on the line over it? This policy directly states that they can do it, without providing any meter on what effectively constitutes a violation of any of the subjective points, while also specifically leaving the door open to it being applied to things not even included there. So, to be clear, are you saying that it's not saying what everyone can read that it's saying? Or are you guessing, too? If it's the latter, what's the difference between your stance and the one of those being wary? That you trust SE?

[Chasingstars]

Oh cool, a nothing burger. The only reason you should be worried about such a thing is if you're that unhinged enough to harass the employees over at SE. Its not about criticizing a created work, that is just judging the art, its about being a karen who wants to harass the employees directly.

[Underscore]

Harassing, not criticizing.

If you don't know the difference, you need to grow and change as a person.

[Antharaes]

Harassing, not criticizing.

If you don't know the difference, you need to grow and change as a person.

You should tell the person instigating this, because clearly, they didn't knew the difference either.

[OrianThormond]

You should tell the person instigating this, because clearly, they didn't knew the difference either.

"We're going to deny service to people who harass our employees" has become "we're going to be imprisoned for criticising the game."

The lack of reading comprehension in this forum is truly staggering.

[Mikey_R]

You should tell the person instigating this, because clearly, they didn't knew the difference either.

The OP is a known troll that twists the truth just enough in order to get people to angry. They have succeeded as can be evidenced in this whole topic.

(General to the topic)

As for the policy itself, anyone who thinks it even remotely applies to criticisms of the game is reading it wrong or completely misunderstanding it. Nowhere doe it say you cannot criticise the game, nowhere does it say you cannot make reasonable requests etc. Most people are blowing it right out of proportion when it is there to prevent harassment against their employees.

If anyone wants to point to the bit that prevents them from requesting Viera/Hrothgar hats or anything else of a similar nature, be my guest, but I suspect you (royal) are reading it wrong.

[CidHeiral]

I'm pretty sure I didn't suggest that any devs should "off themselves" with my topic about the lack of casual content in Dawntrail, yet there's just cause to believe it could get nuked and I'll get in trouble for it because I still had the audacity to call Yoshi-P a liar and suggest Square-Enix doesn't care anywhere near as much as some people want to think.

You're admitting to personally attacking the game director then acting surprised now that you might get in trouble for it. Leave your feedback in a calm and rational manner and you'll have nothing to worry about.

I mean, a recent topic talking about the blacklist privacy issue JUST GOT DELETED and the only thing that topic did was warn people about it and explain what it was doing, yet they clearly didn't like the idea of a topic floating around making them look woefully incompetent about people's privacy with the way they designed it. We didn't even get the courtesy of a GM popping in before or after the deletion to assure us it was being looked into, just a quick bodybag dump into the river because there's "nothing to see here".

That thread was discussing a third party tool which is not allowed on this forum.

Calls people worried about this "very toxic individuals", then proceeds to use this image to reply to someone that was being respectful and reasonable.

I appreciate the pearl clutching but your post was, and continues to be in your response, far from reasonable.

In regards to nobody getting banned for just complaining and criticising, would you put your neck on the line over it? This policy directly states that they can do it, without providing any meter on what effectively constitutes a violation of any of the subjective points, while also specifically leaving the door open to it being applied to things not even included there. So, to be clear, are you saying that it's not saying what everyone can read that it's saying? Or are you guessing, too? If it's the latter, what's the difference between your stance and the one of those being wary? That you trust SE?

They can ban people for whatever they want and that has always been the case. It's right there in the game's ToS:

YOU ACQUIRE NO OWNERSHIP OR PROPERTY RIGHTS IN ANY CHARACTER OR OTHER IN-GAME VIRTUAL GOOD, AND ARE ONLY LICENSED TO USE SUCH CHARACTERS AND ASSETS ASSOCIATED WITH YOUR FFXIV SERVICE ACCOUNT SUBJECT TO THE CONDITIONS SET FORTH IN THE AGREEMENTS. YOU AGREE THAT YOUR FFXIV SERVICE ACCOUNT AND ANY VIRTUAL GOODS AND CHARACTERS DO NOT HAVE ANY MONETARY VALUE. SQUARE ENIX MAY SUSPEND, TERMINATE, MODIFY, OR DELETE FFXIV SERVICE ACCOUNTS, CHARACTERS, VIRTUAL GOODS, OR THE SERVICE ALTOGETHER, AT ANY TIME FOR ANY REASON OR FOR NO REASON, WITH OR WITHOUT NOTICE OR LIABILITY TO YOU.

Source

The same goes for the forum as well:

With the intention of improving the experience of the game for all participants, if a post includes any of the following violations, we reserve the right to take action including, but not limited to, editing/deleting/locking/moving the content without notice, restricting your forum usage, temporarily suspending either your FINAL FANTASY XIV Account or Square Enix Account, or permanently banning either your FINAL FANTASY XIV Account or Square Enix Account.

- Doing anything that is prohibited in the Square Enix Account Terms of Use.
- Taking any other actions that are deemed inappropriate by Square Enix in our sole discretion.

Source

It is an absurd feat of mental gymnastics to twist a policy that's basically "don't be a jerk to our staff" into "omg they're going to silence all negative feedback!!!!1" when they could have done that at literally any point in the last ten years and chose not to. No reasonable person would ever come to that conclusion much less actively fear its repercussions.

[Yshnal]

I appreciate the pearl clutching but your post was, and continues to be in your response, far from reasonable.

Where was I being unreasonable, exactly, at the quoted part of that post? Isn't it true that in order to terminate your access to their game services they need to know who you are, and that the only way to do so if they don't go the legal route is to have access by themselves to that information? Isn't it true that the only way that they can do it is if you're either on one of their platforms, or a public figure that publicly shows their characters/account? And isn't the latter the one that isn't covered in the ToS?

Moreover, even if you disagree with that, was it neccessary to post that picture instead of rebutting it with your own argument? Twist it however you want, but it was ironic that you had called other people toxic and then you ended up doing that. And I pointed it out, since in the end it seems that the people dismissing other people's worries might be the ones actually being guilty of what they say that others are supposedly doing. That's not "pearl clutching", but noticing someone being an hypocrite.

They can ban people for whatever they want and that has always been the case. It's right there in the game's ToS:



Source

The same goes for the forum as well:





Source

It is an absurd feat of mental gymnastics to twist a policy that's basically "don't be a jerk to our staff" into "omg they're going to silence all negative feedback!!!!1" when they could have done that at literally any point in the last ten years and chose not to. No reasonable person would ever come to that conclusion much less actively fear its repercussions.

I knew that you would end up resorting to quoting the ToS. You're comparing the ToS, which apply to the forums and the game and that you're offered to read and agree before using those, to a policy that you need to purposely go to their website to read, that you don't need to agree to, and that applies to literally everywhere.

So, I ask you again. Does the new policy not state what I explained in the previous posts? What's the difference between you and the people being wary of how it can be used? It would be cool if you could answer these easy and straightforward questions instead of actually doing mental gymnastics to avoid doing so.

[Merrigan]

char limit

The majority of gamers aren't developers, scriptwriters, concept artists or any of the other professions related to games. I'll bet you anything you like that almost everyone on this forum has never actually developed a game. And the very fact (without wishing to be unpleasant) that you're comparing your development experience (solo experience, on an indie game) with the management of such a gargantuan game is already a sign of misunderstanding. Because the problem here is not the mastery of a code, but the coordination between the different departments and the visibility on the entire product.

‘That's how client-business relationships work".

Customer relations mean accepting feedback. But it doesn't mean that you have to kiss every customer's feet, accept every proposal, or even lie down when the customer in question gets fussy (which, I repeat, is very often the case here). It also implies that the feedback in question is clearly formulated. Which is not the case here either. And for good reason: the community is diverse, and does not have the same expectations. Look at the war between ‘hardcore’ and ‘casuals’.

I'm not trying to say that SE is all rosy, but having been on quite a few MMORPG forums, I can understand why you end up not listening to your community. Between the unreasonably salty posts; the ones that are simply dirty ideas; contradictory requests ; trolls; people who don't understand what the game means from a technical point of view; and of course the time it would take to sort out the really good ideas from exchanges like the one we're having (which have nothing to do with the evolution of the game), and you end up with an incomprehensible mishmash that's of little interest from the point of view of SE.