Chaotic is midcore, in case you were wondering

[Lilapop]

I'll clarify, and I felt it was important to specify that I dislike the content because I am defending its current state.

There are many people who enjoy the current Chaotic as it is. It is not fair to those people to change it, because it could turn it into something they may no longer enjoy. That is not fair to those players. It has nothing to do with self-worth in clearing, but about the fact you are changing something that people are currently enjoying into something that they may not.

Can this logic not be applied to almost anything though?

It's not fair to nerf PCT because PCT mains are happy with it, it's unfair to debuff it because then that isn't fair to the people who main it "because it could turn into something they make no longer enjoy. That is not fair to those players."

It's not fair to make normal content harder because some players are happy with it how it is and it wouldn't be fair to make it harder "because it could turn into something they make no longer enjoy. That is not fair to those players."

I could go on. While I don't disagree with the overall point you're trying to make, I have a feeling if we applied the exact same logic to... anything other than raiding, there'd be a way different tune and a "reason" why "that's different"

[Nero-Voidstails]

Can this logic not be applied to almost anything though?

It's not fair to nerf PCT because PCT mains are happy with it, it's unfair to debuff it because then that isn't fair to the people who main it "because it could turn into something they make no longer enjoy. That is not fair to those players."

It's not fair to make normal content harder because some players are happy with it how it is and it wouldn't be fair to make it harder "because it could turn into something they make no longer enjoy. That is not fair to those players."

I could go on. While I don't disagree with the overall point you're trying to make, I have a feeling if we applied the exact same logic to... anything other than raiding, there'd be a way different tune and a "reason" why "that's different"

so you are saying buff all other job making the balance of all other expension go more wacky then it is wouldn't make sense either I love Picto myself and even me I see the problem it give and I do still think it should be nerf not only for a balance in end game(current expension) I think it is out of balance in every single instances. Dungeon melt with Picto bosses get dominated with Picto like why taking anything else other then Picto other then red mage for the Rez Picto in raw damage is easier and if you time things right it also never stop.


I do think Picto need a nerf and not other job a buff to go to the same point Picto is it is also easier to nerf one job over buffing almost a dozen of others

[TemporalFruitsAndVeggies]

I'll clarify, and I felt it was important to specify that I dislike the content because I am defending its current state.

There are many people who enjoy the current Chaotic as it is. It is not fair to those people to change it, because it could turn it into something they may no longer enjoy. That is not fair to those players. It has nothing to do with self-worth in clearing, but about the fact you are changing something that people are currently enjoying into something that they may not.

Eh, this is a weak argument because every single change to anything has the potential to upset people in the same manner. Calling it "unfair" doesn't make sense, because there is no "fairness" in what we get -- we're all ultimately at the mercy of whatever the devs decide to put out.

Based on first-week feedback after Chaotic, it was clear that the sentiment towards it was overwhelmingly negative, with even the people saying "it's a well-designed fight" immediately countering that with claims that their time progging it was miserable, which is...generally not how you want your player base to describe their experience with your game. It's already, a mere few weeks in, a massive chore to fill a group purely via PF, because hardly anyone actually likes doing it. And once 7.2 drops, it'll be dead in the water for anyone who isn't into either mount-collecting or that particular hairstyle.

If SE would reduce the difficulty, I'm sure the number of people doing it (or doing it again) would dwarf the number of people who have already done it, which seems like a good trade-off to me. Plus, the community has been screaming non-stop for a couple years now for more non-progression-raiding content, and the first new type of content they put out, finally, is...a progression raid fight. It's just a huge L for them, IMO, and one more point in the "innovation is dead in CBU3" tally.

I personally don't mind the difficulty. It feels more or less early-expansion Savage, but the complexity of FFXIV's mechanics just don't work well with 24 people for me. Dying to explosions that happened because two people a mile away stood on the same tile isn't fun, nor is making that same mistake myself and getting 20 other people killed. I like that it gives BiS armor as rewards. I don't really care about Savage rewards; I just like doing the fights with my friends, so an easier way to gear up alts is appreciated.

[Lilapop]

so you are saying buff all other job making the balance of all other expension go more wacky then it is wouldn't make sense either I love Picto myself and even me I see the problem it give and I do still think it should be nerf not only for a balance in end game(current expension) I think it is out of balance in every single instances. Dungeon melt with Picto bosses get dominated with Picto like why taking anything else other then Picto other then red mage for the Rez Picto in raw damage is easier and if you time things right it also never stop.


I do think Picto need a nerf and not other job a buff to go to the same point Picto is it is also easier to nerf one job over buffing almost a dozen of others

Oh, my mistake for not clarifying. I was exaggerating my points and applying their logic just to show out insane their take is; to answer what you're asking though... what balance? most normal content is brain off to begin with. NIN/VPR are apparently top dps including PCT for the new chaotic. PCT rocks with downtime, any other time it's more in line with everything else, yes? Things in normal content got melted before PCT was even a thing, this isn't a new issue so let's not blame PCT for it. Why should PCT be nerfed instead of acknowledging that most encounters in this game require the brainpower of a cat?

Before PCT, the exact thing you're saying STILL existed, only, exchange PCT with BLM instead. Don't really gotta take my word for it though.

[sindriiisgaming]

If ever there was confirmation that the producers are totally out of touch...

“During the 6.x era, we received a lot of player feedback regarding a lack of midcore content, as well as a strong desire for more large-scale content,” he tells me. “The chaotic alliance raid is our direct response to these requests. With that in mind, we decided our target audience would primarily be those who fall somewhere between extreme trials and the first two savage encounters.."

- Lead battle designer Masaki "Mr Ozma" Nakagawa
https://www.pcgamer.com/games/final-...ons-and-raids/

I know "midcore" is a somewhat nebulous term, but I think we all agree that challenging content for casuals to try that isn't extreme or savage is what the game really needs. So, how does the lead designer interpret this desire? More extreme/savage content, that you need to get 24 people together for so it's really hard to learn. I think we can give up on anything midcore in ffxiv to be honest.

Yoshi, Ozma - midcore is not halfway between extreme and savage. If you want somewhere to start, think savage with half the mechanics, for 4-8 people. And don't get your raid team to test it, they'll just say it's easy. Find some willing casuals. Thank you.

They cannot be serious.... It has literal savage BIS and the most ridiculously tight dps check ive ever seen for "not savage" content. of the 60 or so clears i got half of those were easily on the enrage timer because of a few deaths in p1. its not forgiving in any way. its completely unbalanced. What even is this... do they not listen to ANYTHING we say?

I'll clarify, and I felt it was important to specify that I dislike the content because I am defending its current state.

There are many people who enjoy the current Chaotic as it is. It is not fair to those people to change it, because it could turn it into something they may no longer enjoy. That is not fair to those players. It has nothing to do with self-worth in clearing, but about the fact you are changing something that people are currently enjoying into something that they may not.

If you really must insist on this then why not have 2 modes like criterion. 1 is chaotic and 1 is chaotic savage. seams completely fair. hell u can even have a shiney weapon to go with your pretty armour

[Chasingstars]

The elusive and shapeshifting cryptid known as Midcore.

[Buttobi]

I already mentioned this in another thread, but arguing about the semantics of what "casual", "midcore" and "hardcore" means is completely pointless. The real issue is that the jump in difficulty between normal content and ex trials is way too big. That gap has not been filled for an insanely long time and that's why people feel like there is not enough "midcore" content. Whether you consider ex trials or savage midcore content does not matter. The huge spike in difficulty between normal and ex trials is far bigger than the jump in difficulty between ex trials and savage for example.

Square Enix needs to focus on filling that gap more so that the spectrum of difficulty is gradual. We experienced players have to remember not to take for granted how easy even the harder content may seem to us. Look at it from the perspective of a new player, or maybe even a player who has yet to step into ex trials or higher. Do you really think the current pipeline of difficulty is sufficient to teach them how to do ex trials? I personally think it does not.

And honestly I am not surprised by mr. Ozma's statement. Variant and Criterion was exactly the same where going from Variant to Criterion normal was an insanely big jump in difficulty, basically going from normal to savage mechanics in 1 step. Why was the middle difficulty this hard?

[Supersnow845]

Variant criterion and criterion savage are still so odd in hindsight because I literally could not name you a single type of player who would think the distribution offered was good

As easy as an MSQ dungeon->mid late savage floor->4 man ultimate

Was such a horrible choice that basically meant the content ended up being for nobody. Even JP didn’t engage with it that much because while JP really likes the “ozma midcore” range, they aren’t terribly big on going much higher than it and the reward oriented NA wasn’t interested in the least

“Harder than shiva normal easier and less organisation than an “average” extreme” continues to be the biggest gap in content in this game

[xbahax92]

I dont think difficulty is the issue here...

Personally, it's about a fight that is recoverable. If a few people die during the fight, it shouldn't lead to immediate failure of the whole alliance.
I did not have any issue in Delebrum Savage nor in Castrum Lacus Litore. It worked just fine.

[Asari5]

if you have decent and flexible people with you then quit a lot is recoverable