Revelations from Dawntrail (7.0)

[innis31]

Those are good examples of could've been tragic but avoidable with a good king or queen. And Sphene was always from the get-go evil she always only wanted one thing the tasty tasty souls. Sure she put on a good act but everything she showed us was all so we would bend the knee.
And we ran into hero of the 13th and he was just a kid who was rescued by that one ascian guy. While Durante wasn't THE hero he was still A hero just not a hero backed by fate itself.

[Cleretic]

Those are good examples of could've been tragic but avoidable with a good king or queen. And Sphene was always from the get-go evil she always only wanted one thing the tasty tasty souls. Sure she put on a good act but everything she showed us was all so we would bend the knee.
And we ran into hero of the 13th and he was just a kid who was rescued by that one ascian guy. While Durante wasn't THE hero he was still A hero just not a hero backed by fate itself.

Okay, you're just... straight-up not paying attention to Dawntrail's story then. We can't do anything more for you, if you think Mamook's problems were 'avoidable with a good king' or that Sphene was ontologically evil, you're starting from a broken knowledge base.

[innis31]

Okay, you're just... straight-up not paying attention to Dawntrail's story then. We can't do anything more for you, if you think Mamook's problems were 'avoidable with a good king' or that Sphene was ontologically evil, you're starting from a broken knowledge base.

I mean if thats what you took from it. I will say the Mamook's problem could have been stopped by Gulool Ja Ja but he didn't and they suffered. I only base Sphene on how she behaved sometimes in cut scenes cause she has some sus moments. Then again I could just hate her non-human nature.

[Cleretic]

I mean if thats what you took from it. I will say the Mamook's problem could have been stopped by Gulool Ja Ja but he didn't and they suffered. I only base Sphene on how she behaved sometimes in cut scenes cause she has some sus moments. Then again I could just hate her non-human nature.

See, I would actually argue that Gulool Ja Ja would have been completely unable to save Mamook, because their more material problems (i.e. weird soil leading to difficulty with crops) are held prisoner behind their ideal of 'blessed siblings are the solution to all our problems' that was, itself, causing even more problems. So even if Gulool Ja Ja could solve their more material problems (which I doubt he could, especially with the Head of Reason dead), all that actually does is further entrench them in their self-destructive desire to destroy their own society in favor of trying for more blessed siblings.

And Sphene is a complicated character to the point where she's very difficult to make a claim of morality on, but that complexity itself makes as linear a claim as 'Sphene was evil from the get-go' wrong. I think that in this context a straight claim of morality is worthless, but that Sphene was ultimately doing what she felt was necessary for her people, despite knowing that it would cause bloodshed for others--in fact, she was very clearly not comfortable with that, even if she felt she had to.

[innis31]

I can see where you are coming from on both points. I guess I just hate that they didn't use all the tools at their disposal. With Gulool Ja Ja and his lack of Reason to Sphene's inability to grow as a sentient being they both had access to resources they didn't use, like I bet if Sphene had brought all nonessential citizens offline and brought all her scientists online but in a virtual matrix like environment and have them work on the power crisis she could have a solution in the works but she's just told no there's no other way so she gives up. Gulool Ja Ja on the other hand sent his kid to the planet's greatest college. And as shown that wasn't a waste when he solved the reed issue for the Hanu but that part of the competition so he was trying extra hard but if he could do that, he could fix the soil issue if he asks the right person, but he is being underutilized and not doing all he can.