Chaotic is midcore, in case you were wondering

[Supersnow845]

The biggest problem with this whole discussion/argument is that people are coming from different contexts and then are communicating with each other in a way that doesn’t work. “Casual,” “Midcore,” and “Hardcore” are meaningless. People begging for “Midcore” content have ended up getting what Japan calls “Midcore.”

And now you might have the privilege of spending ten pages here arguing with experienced raiders about what is and isn’t “Midcore, unless you focus more on what exactly the content should be like rather than what label you put on it.

My first clear of Dawntrail’s second Extreme was when our best available gear was around ilvl 710, and we had thirteen deaths in it (me being one of them lol) so to me it definitely doesn’t have a hardcore dps requirement and is not super strict about mechanics either. But that’s still not what you’re looking for, and it doesn’t help so far when anyone says “but it’s not that hard???? You don’t need to be crazy good to beat it????”

How would your hypothetical “midcore” content test you in a way that’s higher than Normal raids but not as much as Extreme? Mechanics need to require you to them, otherwise they may as well not exist. Dps checks might need to exist, so people press their buttons and also aren’t dying a crazy amount. What would the content need to be like so that there’s more of a challenge than normal mode but people aren’t getting carried?

On the other hand I do end up on the viewpoint of “just do Extreme but take your time with it.”

The type of content most people who are asking in NA for midcore already exists; it’s functionally BA (without its dumb entry requirements) or orbornne before they nerfed it into the ground. You could also argue the Diablo armament and some of the hardest CE’s fall into this (like Zadnor belias)

Their mechanics matter because if you do them wrong you WILL die, but you don’t take the rest of the raid with you and they don’t need specific strat coordination that on NA basically necessitates PF

just let people go in and get belted by the content and maybe wipe more or twice but still have it done by random queueing. Lax enrages like AV/ozma also wouldn’t go astray