Why casual players don't 'just leave'

[AvoSturmfaust]

Honestly, whilst you're coming from a good place, I do actually disagree. A social atmosphere is just as much a staple of an MMO as to what the general content is, so I think it's fine if players want to treat it as a social hub of sorts. Granted, it is a problem for people wanting something from nothing, but this isn't really exclusive to the casuals, I have seen so many people, both casual and hardcore defend the shallow husk that is now the FFXIV crafting system. FFXIV is just in a weird place because bar relics, the developers don't actually know how to create long-form content which is a massive problem.

1/2

i do agree with you that casuals that treat it as a social hub probably are the minority, but honestly you could remove every single 1 of them right now and not much will improve, because the problem with the game isn't actually the player, it is the developers. Just look at the amount of pure distaste people have for the rigid patch cycle, for example, yet they have persisted to do this expansion-after-expansion, unrelenting, and it isn't the casuals that don't want to engage with the game that are the problem here. Look at the amount of feedback they are getting, and watch how much of it will just be ignored.

I agree with you that they really need to change something about the Patch Cycle, this isnt working anymore, but they literally cant listen to all the Feedback, not because of lack of resources but more likely because of the lack of player actually wanting this changes, i give you a few example :

Lets start with Class Changes people here expecting changes or buffs or anything without looking much further into the details, or a minority wants to xyz back or wants to have xyz while the majority which isnt here in the forum doesnt want to xzy changes (its now only a example) and sorry this shouldnt be sound rude but most of the people complaining about xyz class changes are never touched any difficult content and you cant balance or change classed based on how they play in a dungeon, in every game so far i played balance and class changes was always based on endgame content where it matters, and i tell you a big big secret, people complain about fflogs because its illegal but like every company i guarantee you square is looking a lot into fflogs for balance issues

or the graphic update most people enjoy it, but then there are people which cry about "i cant idenfity anymore with my char so now i stop playing" if square would always listen to all that complains or anything the game wouldnt have a change to evolve not in the slightest and there are so much more going on.

[AvoSturmfaust]

Honestly, whilst you're coming from a good place, I do actually disagree. A social atmosphere is just as much a staple of an MMO as to what the general content is, so I think it's fine if players want to treat it as a social hub of sorts. Granted, it is a problem for people wanting something from nothing, but this isn't really exclusive to the casuals, I have seen so many people, both casual and hardcore defend the shallow husk that is now the FFXIV crafting system. FFXIV is just in a weird place because bar relics, the developers don't actually know how to create long-form content which is a massive problem.

I do agree with you that casuals that treat it as a social hub probably are the minority, but honestly you could remove every single 1 of them right now and not much will improve, because the problem with the game isn't actually the player, it is the developers. Just look at the amount of pure distaste people have for the rigid patch cycle, for example, yet they have persisted to do this expansion-after-expansion, unrelenting, and it isn't the casuals that don't want to engage with the game that are the problem here. Look at the amount of feedback they are getting, and watch how much of it will just be ignored.

2/2
and its not like they didnt listen at all, 2 dye channel was something which was wished or better said better ways to dye glam, more space in the dresser more plates etc etc etc this was something which was granted, then the coming ingame raidplan is something great, with DT we getting now a new diadem, a new combat zone stuff people wished for, so yea they listen to feedback

the only thing what really needs to change is the patch cyclus so that the casual content gets a bit earlier on, someone said in a post earlier that they should release savage content and some casual content at the same time or atleast close to it and yea thats something i agree both sides should get something at the same time

[Kaurhz]

2/2
and its not like they didnt listen at all, 2 dye channel was something which was wished or better said better ways to dye glam, more space in the dresser more plates etc etc etc this was something which was granted, then the coming ingame raidplan is something great, with DT we getting now a new diadem, a new combat zone stuff people wished for, so yea they listen to feedback

the only thing what really needs to change is the patch cyclus so that the casual content gets a bit earlier on, someone said in a post earlier that they should release savage content and some casual content at the same time or atleast close to it and yea thats something i agree both sides should get something at the same time

I think they should be listening to, or at least acknowledging feedback which is gaining a lot of traction though, and actually giving a thoroughly thought out answer as to why they can or cannot implement the feedback, e.g., the whole healer situation "Go play Ultimate if you want an engaging experience". As for the class changes this isn't something exclusive to one side of the player base that is complaining. I would wager even some of the now bad implementations are as much as a result of people that do actually raid, as to what it is with people that barely touch combat content. I will say though, regardless of this, some complaints I do think have some merit, even from people that don't touch the harder content. Like, yeah, it should be balanced around difficult content, but I don't think this should warrant them nigh on completely forsaking fundamental balances around dungeons, whether that is through class design or through dungeon encounter design. Like, you can have a balanced system, that doesn't turn dungeons into a complete and utter sewage of content. Because at that point they aren't actually developing a well thought out game, but just introducing gameplay elements for the sake of hitting that quota.

Graphics update is probably one of the few feedback streams they actually handled well. People just needed an adjustment period, they recognized this and were still able to make appropriate changes. It's just a shame this balanced mentality can't be applied elsewhere, seemingly.

They listen to feedback largely insofar that it is something that can be adapted into their usual patch schedule, so of course they do listen to feedback, and there are examples of where they have. I just think in a lot of other areas as far as feedback goes, there's a gigantic room for improvement.

Patch cycle is a massive problem, and it is arguably one of the biggest, but there are still plenty of issues, and issues that have been a thing for a really long time.

[Hallarem]

All the criticism is to fuel a fire under the arse of SE and make the game better.

That sort of thing happens when regular feedback doesnt work and things dont change

[Fatch38]

I think the real full Casuals are the biggest issue FFXIV are facing right now and they really should leave and dont get me wrong i dont mean it in a bad or mean way BUT listen to me im talking about the Casuals which doesnt want to take part in any real combat content, or crafting or farming content or anything, look i play MMOs for more then 15-17years now, i played from Metin2 to Rappelz, Flyff, Perfect World, Blade and Soul, Tera, Aion etc i played literally everything

In every game the Endgamecontent was always raids or bigger grinds or even crafting or farming what ever but it was content were people had to improve, learn a playstyle or anything you know, you had to do something for succes it wasnt "i want everything for free and dont wanna participate in content" and you had from hardcore player to casuals everything and everyone did the content but here in final its different

you have people which literally dont wanna do anything, i mean i get it if you dont wanna raid savage its fine there are still extremes or you can make millions with crafting, but there are people which really dont wanna do anything, no savage, no fates, no crafting, no farming, no grinding, no extremes, heck even dungeons are too hard for them but these people are complaining now there is no content for them,sorry to tell you but if even a dungeon is to hard for you, maybe mmos are not suited for you

and now there will be people starting with "but this people are the majority and they pay the game" but no they arent the majority, i guarantee you combine the savage raider, the casuals which atleast enjoy extremes add the ones which enjoy purely crafting etc and you will see that casuals which doesnt want to participate in any content are the minority

and i say it again i mean now only these kind of people who really dont wanna do anything like i said there are many many many casuals which do enjoy extremes or crafting or grinding

and i think final cant evolve because they created a bubble with people which doesnt want to participate in endgamecontent, never saw something in any mmo i played in the past

a game cant improve if hold back by the player.

i'll talk from my own experience but i became what ppl would call casual (even if i did raid savage, farmed ex, even sold runs/kills back in the day) for good reasons : rewards sucks a**, you can throw me any mount you want i'll never use them 95% of the time. gearing is one of the worst in the mmo genre, taking hours and hours of my time on savage to get a gear that'll get instantly replaced by crafted on next set of raid is a dumb game design. sub stats are in a state where it's boring as hell (you litterally have only 2 good substats all other ones have so little impact that it's stupid). i'll admit that after 10 year maybe i grew tired and as i'm older not having as much time to spare but to me any player should be able to play as much as he want and make its char progress (and NO, glamour and collection aren't progress, we are in a rpg) and if casual player complain then accept it or f*** off if you aren't ok with the idea of someone who spend time being stronger than you in a video game.

ngl ppl don't want to interact with content because said content bring nothing and being a hamster in a wheel for 10 years, some ppl will be ok with it but some ppl won't.
imo SE mistakes are : putting a normal mode for raids (sorry but it was stupid or even putting gear that outstand previous savage in normal mode was because the first complaint was "blablabla bahamut too hard can't have the story" so that mean story should be the only reward there), a lazy/stupid game design everywhere (from gearing to open world to limited jobs) and catering to a population that would rather play barbie online than playing a game.

[Mawlzy]

i'll talk fomr my own experience but i became what ppl would call casual (even if i did raid savage, farmed ex, even sold runs/kills back in the day) for good reasons : rewards sucks a**, you can throw me any mount you want i'll never use them 95% of the time. gearing is one of the worst in the mmo genre, taking hours and hours of my time on savage to get a gear that'll get instantly replaced by crafted on next set of raid is a dumb game design.

Raiders could fix this problem by refusing to engage with the current raid tier until the subsequent crafting gear was available.

[Lilapop]

All the criticism is to fuel a fire under the arse of SE and make the game better.

That sort of thing happens when regular feedback doesnt work and things dont change

If they're still getting money, they probably won't see a problem. Willing to make a change until you have to do more than yap about it, I guess?

[Themarvin]

It is the same reasons why them so called 'elite' players wont leave either... hope and worse a false hope... and dead promises from the FFXIV team, which probably has fired too much staff anyway.

Stop making up excuses?

[NamiRocket]

"What does FFXIV do better?" Imo, graphics, story, and music are still better. However I would say my memory of WoW being kind of meh looking isn't entirely accurate, the newer zones can be quite pretty and the zone design makes up for it (zone content is substantially better than FFXIV).

The older zones, too. FFXIV does not, nor has it ever compared to WoW in terms of zone aesthetic, design, environmental storytelling, or activities. WoW was graphically rougher at one point, but that point was a very, very long time ago and its art team has always knocked it out of the park.