Maybe it's time for a casual "strike" if not complete departure.

[Altina_Orion]

Assuming that "Hardcore" players are eating good is also wrong.

So, first and foremost, I want to say that savage isn't designed for the hardcore player. It's designed for players that want to challenge themself. That said, beyond the first clear of it, that challenge quickly goes away and it becomes a farm. The mechanics are predictable enough that there is no real challenge beyond the first clear. Some people who are casual will still clear because they put in a few hours a week to go in and prog. This isn't hardcore, it's just hard content.

I also want to address that "hardcore" players in general are still feeling the lack of content. 7.1 was the first real update we had in nearly 4 months and the only piece of content it brought us was one duty. Not to be dismissive of the "casual" players just getting MSQ, a beast tribe that takes 5 mins a day, and custom delivers that take 5 mins a week. But most of us don't sit around and raid all day. Many raiders either do or want to do other content and throwing yourself at a duty over and over for weeks on end waiting for 7.2 in 3 months is not going to keep raiders entertained.

There is a serious lack of midcore content right now and it effects nearly everyone except the two extreme groups - those who RP all day who are content no matter what and those who raid all day regardless of how repetitive it is. The state dawntrail is in is abhorrent for nearly everyone.

[Mawlzy]

Anyone else remember this?

Walked away. Came back. It's an in-out mechanic.

[Altina_Orion]

Endgame? I suppose you can define that the endgame is hardcore combat, but I'm not sure how that can be accurate when most people don't engage in it. As others have noted, the combat system has always been one of the weaker aspects of the game. I've never heard of anyone trying FF14 because of the good combat mechanics - generally they're regarded as being janky thanks to the netcode.

You have a whole community who enjoy the fact that it is basically a tribute to the rest of the franchise, and others who pursue all the other things the world offers. Hell, you ask in any of the starter cities what the endgame is, I imagine the most common response might be "glam." Never occurred to me anyone would regard it as raiding.

This is truly a wild take. If the endgame really was glam, there wouldn't be a game to play anymore. Also, the only issue with the netcode is weaving which SHOULD be fixed, but otherwise there is very little jank in combat. Dodging mechanics and resolving mechanics is almost always very responsive. Most of the complaints about netcode are people not understanding how snapshots work despite putting hundreds of hours into the game because casual duties are so casual that you can't even die in them unless you try or are running it for your first time.

That said, raiding is certainly an endgame. Endgame is content that you can access at the end of the game. It's not impossible to define glam as endgame but it's very much "whenever you want in progression" non-playable content. Bozja, eureka, palace of the dead, big fishing, and of course raiding... these are all "endgames" of ffxiv. Standing around in limsa roleplaying is not endgame, but it's still an acceptable way to enjoy the game.

[Mawlzy]

This is truly a wild take. If the endgame really was glam, there wouldn't be a game to play anymore. Also, the only issue with the netcode is weaving which SHOULD be fixed, but otherwise there is very little jank in combat. Dodging mechanics and resolving mechanics is almost always very responsive. Most of the complaints about netcode are people not understanding how snapshots work despite putting hundreds of hours into the game because casual duties are so casual that you can't even die in them unless you try or are running it for your first time.

That said, raiding is certainly an endgame. Endgame is content that you can access at the end of the game. It's not impossible to define glam as endgame but it's very much "whenever you want in progression" non-playable content. Bozja, eureka, palace of the dead, big fishing, and of course raiding... these are all "endgames" of ffxiv. Standing around in limsa roleplaying is not endgame, but it's still an acceptable way to enjoy the game.

Sure but the end of the game is constantly changing with new patches as the MSQ advances and gear (for raiders) becomes obsolete. Like Island Sanctuary is more of an end game in the sense that, like a lot of casual content, it ends because the devs drop it.

[Altina_Orion]

Sure but the end of the game is constantly changing with new patches as the MSQ advances and gear (for raiders) becomes obsolete. Like Island Sanctuary is more of an end game in the sense that, like a lot of casual content, it ends because the devs drop it.

As with the case of nearly all MMOs, this isn't unique to ffxiv. in WoW you gear is also invalidated, there is no way to even sync older raids, things like Garrison in wow which is somewhat similar to IS got completely left behind. But it was the endgame at the time.

[Collin_Sky]

Sure but the end of the game is constantly changing with new patches as the MSQ advances and gear (for raiders) becomes obsolete. Like Island Sanctuary is more of an end game in the sense that, like a lot of casual content, it ends because the devs drop it.

This is either some insane mental gymnastics or you're just trolling at this point.

[AmiableApkallu]

I've never heard of anyone trying FF14 because of the good combat mechanics - generally they're regarded as being janky thanks to the netcode.

Most of the complaints about netcode are people not understanding how snapshots work despite putting hundreds of hours into the game because casual duties are so casual that you can't even die in them unless you try or are running it for your first time.

It's perfectly reasonable to expect that the animations you see on your screen for an attack correspond to whether you get hit by it. It defies expectations when you're standing clear of the big explosion and yet still die, and vice versa.

Yes, yes, the whole "snapshot" thing is something that anyone can learn to play around once they're told how it works, but I wouldn't hold it up as a shining example of good combat mechanics and implementation.

[Altina_Orion]

In all fairness, the animations could match the telegraphs better. That said, it's not hard to react before a cast bar ends of a giant red marker below you disappears even if the animation hits it a bit later.

Edit: You would think people would be able to grasp the concept of it by dawntrail unless they are willfully ignorant of it.

[Mawlzy]

This is either some insane mental gymnastics or you're just trolling at this point.

Let's see. I have two braincells and am lazy, which would seem to rule out any form of gymnastics. So I guess that leaves trolling, unless you're rolling out another one of your false syllogisms.

I genuinely don't understand, with all the paths and playstyles this game facilitates, how only hardcore raiding qualifies as end-game. I see the "logical" argument that is being attempted:

Playing the end-game is the players' goal in FF14;
Hardcore raiding is the end-game;
Thus hardcore raiding is the players' goal in FF14.

Which demonstrates that using a faulty minor premise results in a faulty conclusion.

[roasche]

Let's be real, unless you're a hardcore player, buying Dawntrail and being subbed this last half a year probably feels like a waste of money, and there's no guarantee that anything coming in 7.2 or beyond is even meant for casual players either and they won't pull another "whoops, we made it Savage difficulty instead, teehee!"

Besides, the hardcore playerbase has it made it abundantly clear, especially with Chaotic, that they hold such casuals in complete and utter disgust and don't want such players in "their" game anyway, so might as well just let them have it then, let them hold the game up on their own instead of expecting others to keep it running for them while being spat on by community and developer alike.

And if that isn't motivation enough for you, just remember every other time "Yoshi-P said" when it came to this or that which never got implemented or fixed over 10 years, but it was all-hands-on-deck on getting every piece of hardcore content possible squeezed out within less than 6 months, even rushing to get Chaotic out by Christmas. (Early access was June 28th, 2024 and Chaotic Raids was December 24th, 2024) and STILL you are expected to wait further into 2025 for a "maybe" knowing in advance how hard they can drop the ball when expected to do something that isn't just recycling assets, as the MSQ can attest.

It goes beyond neglect, it's just contempt at this point, and we're paying for the privilege of being scorned.

Bye! Have a good time playing other games!!!