Dawntrail’s Narrative Missteps: Why Natsuko Ishikawa’s Touch Is Sorely Missed

[Nasigno]

The drop was apparent in Endwalker before even Dawntrail was on the table. It is held high but still feel it did not deliver upon a conclusion that is as well delivered as it deserved. Truly Endwalker felt it could of been spread across two expansions to give a better end as everything felt compressed.

From how the Garlean Empire was dealt with off screen despite being such a threat for years. To the writing of our antagonist which literally was lacking depth. Then the final point being the whole cause of everything essentially pulled out of nowhere and never eluded to in basically a decade? Then we just solve it instantly without any consequence of any action or sacrifice merely just a monetary item that just gets remedy at the flick of a wrist.

Endwalker was the downturn. I do feel for the writing team as having to produce a new enemy to fill the role of Ascians and Zodiark is going to be hard as they have to fill the gap left by immortals that could literally think in creation at the peak of the civilization.

[ovIm]

From how the Garlean Empire was dealt with off screen despite being such a threat for years.

This was so incredibly disappointing... I would have loved to walk around garlemald city, see how the devs envisioned these worlds. All we got was a snowy field and some ruins.

[Voidmage]

I do feel for the writing team as having to produce a new enemy to fill the role of Ascians and Zodiark is going to be hard as they have to fill the gap left by immortals that could literally think in creation at the peak of the civilization.

I don't know. I think the fans already came up with pretty good ideas.
We could go back to politics (the WoL can't do much about such things), we could go about a larger scale conflict (the WoL can't be everywhere at once).
Heck we could even have a villian who targets the WoL specifically because of their power and status. A shard of them looking to gain their power or someone imposting as them.

I don't think the Ascians where dangerous because of immortality but because their plan was so large scale in the background.
Zenos wasn't immortal and probably the one of the most dangerous being we fought against and Niddhogg showed what a being of pure rage can accomplish.
Lolorito and Teledji almost single handidly destroyed the scions and almost the status of the WoL at that time.

@topic

Honestly Ishikawas touch is still there in some points. She seems to be someone who excells in personal stories and dialogue like the gondola scene but places everything on those.
I like her writing but I don't think she is perfect and imo if the entire story depents on her then that is just wrong and bad.
It's a good thing to train other writers but imo in sidequests first and the writers we have already showed there that they are just not very good.
EW A-raid story was horrible without direction and (hot take) Werlyt is pretty overhyped and has the same carricatures and stupid "standing around" scenes as well as nonsensical plot as DT.

I think the problem wasn't so much the writing but the completely missing quality control of the story.
The ideas themself were good but not written correctly and like Zepla said the characters were not consistent.
The whole of new continent is just a big carricature without any problems and all the characters are just tropes.

All in all I hope Zeplas video gives them the kick they need because apparently they don't listen to everything else anyway.

[Nasigno]

I don't know. I think the fans already came up with pretty good ideas.
We could go back to politics (the WoL can't do much about such things), we could go about a larger scale conflict (the WoL can't be everywhere at once).
Heck we could even have a villian who targets the WoL specifically because of their power and status. A shard of them looking to gain their power or someone imposting as them.

I don't think the Ascians where dangerous because of immortality but because their plan was so large scale in the background.
Zenos wasn't immortal and probably the one of the most dangerous being we fought against and Niddhogg showed what a being of pure rage can accomplish.
Lolorito and Teledji almost single handidly destroyed the scions and almost the status of the WoL at that time.

That is the thing, we can, and have done so. The war was spread across 2 whole shards. That is a conflict of magnitudes wider than if you even include the whole planet in a war. We are just plainly too powerful a threat, even if we cannot be everywhere you buy only time before we show up and just end it.

As for Zenos, he was just given power up after power up with each death, or push back. Whether it was a Dragon eye, Reaper powers, or just the plain fact he was brought back from the grave he was just propped up by whatever. I was happy with his introduction, but when his depth was "Fight me" he became a boring antagonist with no depth and essentially became immortal as he died and was dragged up from the grave.

Ascians were dangerous as they had the immortality to give them the time to study, plan, and repeat the process non-stop. Beyond that, their literal capability to think something into literally existence proved to a slip up to why we even exist in the first place. Literally we are a byproduct of their failures to put into perspective how potent a threat they are.

So the issue is, how do you fill the gap and make a threat capable of being a problem to someone who can kill Primals/Ascians/Anything (throw an antagonist we've bested them quickly)

[Voidmage]

So the issue is, how do you fill the gap and make a threat capable of being a problem to someone who can kill Primals/Ascians/Anything (throw an antagonist we've bested them quickly)

By writing a good story "around" it.
The WoL is extremely powerfull yes but I don't think a story should try to work against it but using it.
Yes Zenos was a plot device and his powers full of nonsense but all he did was because of us. So he could set a grand stage for a final fight.
Without us he would still chill on his throne and would have never become such a trap for Garlemald.
Same as the Sultana assassination plot.
It didn't matter how powerfull we were. Instead it was used against us to blame everything on us.
Even Fandaniel used it against us with us killing Zodiark.

The WoL's entire strength has to be accounted for. Yes that is hard to do but these are proffesional writers after all.
But right now all they do is try to ignore it or when it is mentioned like with the final DT fight it doesn't really matter and I fear they will continue this.
The WoL will be ignored and used as a camera, his strenght doesn't matter because we just stand around in cutscenes or because everyone already knows we will blow through a challenge and in the great finale *poof* it's dangerous all of a sudden and we are "needed".

Either that or they do a Middgardsomr and somehow seal part of their power but honestly that would sound cheap.

[Hallarem]

I think the most worriesome part of the writing is how we are steering away from nuance and politics to "yay the good guys always win, hope vs despair and solutions to issues coming instantly or on the very same day"

[Nasigno]

By writing a good story "around" it.

The WoL's entire strength has to be accounted for. Yes that is hard to do but these are proffesional writers after all.

The core issue with that, the issue is yes they are professional writers, but the same can be said about the team that made Acolyte. Do tell me how well that did?

They have to write a good story around the narrative they have made themselves. Which is essentially the "real threat that made everything" was never eluded to and had a very mediocre introduction that was cleaned up almost immediately with no consequence. The threats that have been in existence since the dawn of time are no more. And now at best we just instilled two naive and incompetent leaders to a tribal nation. Cause that is all we got going, nobody anywhere else is going to play a political subterfuge game with the person who literally has saved the star from doom.

I want this to continue with a great story, and even for DT they could of done so much more with the two antagonist. A much better depth to their actions, or even say flip who was the final boss for 7.0. Could of made a much more impactful need for one to do the bidding of the other. However we got what we got, they could of had it far more built up than just "TIME DISTORTION" being the excuse for why they were ready to do what they did. Could of been a plan that was in motion for far longer. But again, we got what we got.

[Voidmage]

The core issue with that, the issue is yes they are professional writers, but the same can be said about the team that made Acolyte. Do tell me how well that did?

They have to write a good story around the narrative they have made themselves. Which is essentially the "real threat that made everything" was never eluded to and had a very mediocre introduction that was cleaned up almost immediately with no consequence. The threats that have been in existence since the dawn of time are no more. And now at best we just instilled two naive and incompetent leaders to a tribal nation. Cause that is all we got going, nobody anywhere else is going to play a political subterfuge game with the person who literally has saved the star from doom.

I want this to continue with a great story, and even for DT they could of done so much more with the two antagonist. A much better depth to their actions, or even say flip who was the final boss for 7.0. Could of made a much more impactful need for one to do the bidding of the other. However we got what we got, they could of had it far more built up than just "TIME DISTORTION" being the excuse for why they were ready to do what they did. Could of been a plan that was in motion for far longer. But again, we got what we got.

I don't disagree that they could have done so much more and all. Believe me I don't defend anything here.
But I disagree on one thing.
Yes we saved the star and all but honestly that doesn't put us above all law.
If enough damage is done from who knows what and people think it is the WoL fault or even part of a grant scion (or Sharlayan) sheme then it doesn't matter if the rulers are on our side.
The whole "rulers dictate peace with beast tribes and Garlemald" is completely unrealistic anyway because the citizens don't know the details and had generations of prejudice.
The whole of Aetheris is at peace now so outside of political stuff I don't know where any problems could occur there anymore outside of small skirmishes in less important regions.

But that doesn't matter.
Fact is that we both agree that the writers need to do better and find a solution. If not then the story will continue to be mediocre and the next region will have the same carricature problems as Tural had.

[Nasigno]

Sure a smart villian would be a nice touch, which sure the Sharalayan seem a good fall point given their involvement in quite a number of plot points.

However I doubt we willingly would do anything that catastrophic to lose the people. At best it would have to be outsiders. Which I guess with the current plot is a good example of that possibility.

We are very much above the law. Things curtail to us on a dime regardless of precedents or procedure. If we deem it necessary everything falls in line. I mean even the impact of just having to kill everyone around us was thrown as "that won't be as funny when we forced to kill them all." We just have too much sway everywhere we been.

[Manamaru]

From how the Garlean Empire was dealt with off screen despite being such a threat for years. To the writing of our antagonist which literally was lacking depth. Then the final point being the whole cause of everything essentially pulled out of nowhere and never eluded to in basically a decade? Then we just solve it instantly without any consequence of any action or sacrifice merely just a monetary item that just gets remedy at the flick of a wrist.

Endwalker was the downturn. I do feel for the writing team as having to produce a new enemy to fill the role of Ascians and Zodiark is going to be hard as they have to fill the gap left by immortals that could literally think in creation at the peak of the civilization.

The compressed writing on how the Garlean situation was dealt with after being made a front and center issue since A Realm Reborn. I wonder if Yoshi P and the dev team regret but will never say it when they advertised Endwalker as the conclusion of the Hydaelyn and Zodiark "saga".

EW provided us with the potential of space travel opening up as new or various forms of MSQ possibilities while still having the world to explore. Then Dawntrail gives us a little McGuffin that allows us to freely travel between reflections. Did Square Enix and Creative Studio III have so little confidence in keeping player interest and retention that they had to prematurely show their hand by basically going "Look! Multi-verse! We still have plenty of ideas and stories to tell."

For the record, using a multi-verse as a hook in story telling will just fall flat if the characters are written with the same depth and expression as a vtuber cardboard cut-out you auction off at a con.

Not sure if this sudden shift is because a number of the original dev team has been shifted to work on another numbered title, or if they've taken on other projects as well. But if signifies failure in two main aspects:

1. That the writing and depth of characters has taken such a downward turn in the absence of some certain people indicates that this new batch of devs and writers were not prepared to undertake the task that was given them and be able to meet expectations. This also includes oversight in quality for the final product at launch.

2. That such a change was so undeniably noticeable indicates that the older team members that were shifted to work on other projects failed in guiding, coaching, and essentially training them up for the big moment. If there was a lack in confidence or performance anxiety to meet expectations, that should've been something discussed and tackled. Instead there is a distinct lack of confidence. Even at their own live letter did Yoshi P mention something about looking forward to 8.0 for things and changes.