Chaotic Alliance Raid is a fun fight, but awful content

[AllenThyl]

Macchiato was arguing against the "if there is nothing to play, unsub" argument, which does ring true though. People keep telling players that if there is nothing in the game that interests them, they should unsub. But unsubbed people don't get gear, and don't get the experience required to clear this content. You see how that is an issue in and out of itself?
So its not actually "unsub", its "keep paying a sub fee, do your weeklies, and pray for content to drop that interests you".

And? Like seriously, what kind of absolute rubbish argument is that? This in an MMORPG! With character progression. One of the core gameplay loops is do content -> get gear -> do harder content -> get better gear. This game is already very lenient with it's gearing system, and allows people with a relative low time investment to gear up appropriately. In fact, with each new tier, the previous one gets invalidated and new easy to acquire baseline gear gets introduced so that people don't have to slog through all the previous content to catch up. I am sorry, but this whole discussion is reaching absolutely ridiculous levels. This is not a dress up simulator game. It's an action combat MMORPG. And quite frankly, some posters here should really start to look inward a bit whether or not they are actually playing the correct type of genre. Or if they actually need therapy to treat their video game addiction.

Thats not whats being argued here though.
i720 tome gear and i720 augmented crafted gear will still not get you in i730 locked out parties. Hells, you could have hunted and done your weeklies since 7.1 released, upgraded every gear piece you can, and still, due to having an i720 ring and i725 weapon at best, be locked out of i730 parties.
Does not matter if it is just a few % of damage difference, people use the i730 to lock out everyone that does not have savage gear.

That is PRESICELY what was being argued. If someone can't even make the base effort to get some freeby gear, what effort will these people make in content that requires them to actually do mechanics? The Chaotic Raid is an absolute pain to prog because every party is flooded with the typical pf leechers, who fail mechanic after mechanic. That's not on the fight, that's just the player base. And I can very much understand after 2 days of this quite frankly pathetic circus, how people are getting really fed up with the amount of prog liers and low effort participants that the ilvl gets raised to filter those who can't even bother to gear up.
Also, and that is what is the most pathetic thing about all this: Just make your own damn party then! With your own rules, your own item level, your own raidplan and strategies, whatever. All you people complaining here about being excluded are functioning adults, right? Paying taxes, bills, some having kids, dependents and all that. How is that such an insurmountable challenge for you all to organize yourself? It's pathetic, utterly pathetic.

Not everyone expects to be carried, but wanting a fighting chance to clear.

That is precisely what is being expected. All the rewards, none of the work. Gearing up is too much to ask, learning the mechanics is too much to ask, making their own parties is too much to ask. Bloody hell some people here are expecting to get talked through the whole encounter when something goes wrong instead of just, you know, asking. Like a functioning adult.

To be honest, people already do exactly this, so everything in this thread is par the course.

One unjust essentialist generalization does not justify another. The bashing and homogenization "casuals" is just as wrong as the self-inflicted helplessness a significant amount of people display, as well as the monsterization of "hardcores". Some people in this and the other thread are very quick to say which groups and / or individuals are "hating" which other group, despite all parties being present and able to speak for themselves. People doing high end raids aren't some fringe group in this community. They make up a sizeable portion. It is quite frankly pretty disgusting to see how member of a community that unjustifiably prides itself so extremely on its "inclusivity" being so rhetorically vicious.

This is not a healthy relationship to have with an MMORPG.

[Lilapop]

snip

You cannot get ilvl 730 across the board without current tier Savage. At most, without it, you can get ilvl 729 which will STILL lock you out of ilvl 730 parties. I'm missing the part where Savage raiding is considered "easy freebee baseline gear".

[Kaurhz]

One unjust essentialist generalization does not justify another. The bashing and homogenization "casuals" is just as wrong as the self-inflicted helplessness a significant amount of people display, as well as the monsterization of "hardcores". Some people in this and the other thread are very quick to say which groups and / or individuals are "hating" which other group, despite all parties being present and able to speak for themselves. People doing high end raids aren't some fringe group in this community. They make up a sizeable portion. It is quite frankly pretty disgusting to see how member of a community that unjustifiably prides itself so extremely on its "inclusivity" being so rhetorically vicious.

This is not a healthy relationship to have with an MMORPG.

I am not justifying either, I am just making that OP aware that all these issues already occur in the game and on the forums, I am well aware of how detrimental said behavior is, and I don't condone it by any measure, but it is still unfortunately expected. One side bites, then the other bites back just as much and on so goes reciprocation.

I do actually agree with you, but SE doesn't actually accommodate for inclusivity in the first place, contrary to what might be believed, so this is just going to be something that invariably cascades down to the entire community, where we're more focused on pointing the stick, rather than examining the underlying issue. Your responses above to OvIm are just as much a contributory factor as anything else, albeit on the tamer side of the 'vicious rhetoric', but it is still definitely present.