Please fix scaling, fights are dying so fast now

[Jeeqbit]

I think it's a shame those players who are genuinely skilled at games seem to underappreciate that they have a somewhat unusual ability.

For me, that's not the case. I struggled with just running out of red circles while attacking when I was new as well (but I blame SE setting Standard cam as default and a poor HUD layout). I struggled with numerous mechanics, but through practice and thinking of ways to handle it, I found a way to cope with it.

I could give some other good examples from Savage.

• Gavel is a lot of memorization for blue mages because it's pure RNG what they get, but through brute force I remembered it. Then I had to also remember to greed during it to skip the rest of the fight. It took time, but eventually, I remembered to do it.
• Snakes in P8S stopped holding your hand with role mechanics (which after so many years of them are kinda braindead ie. healers get stacks, tanks/healers paired with a DPS they choose at the start, etc) and forced you to actually look at the party list and your environment to see what you will be doing and with who. That was a hard adjustment for me, but with practice, made me better.

So it's not so much about being gifted as about practice and rising to the challenge to become "gifted".

Most people who are not gifted in that way literally struggle to maintain a 2-minute rotation on a striking dummy.

Again, I used to struggle with this as well because combos were a bit of unique concept compared to other games I'd played. Actually, there was a time I made macros for combos to help manage the sheer amount of buttons and bloat, but with time, I got used to just pressing the buttons and how the rotation worked, and didn't really need the macros anymore. Or I figured out a better hotbar layout that made it simpler to manage.

MY FC is dominated by older players, all of whom agree DT battles are faster paced. I hope that trend doesn't continue.

There are some fast fights in Endwalker and Shadowbringers as well. Keeper of the Lake used to have a fast fight as well. But in the worst case scenario, you just get a vuln or get rez'd.

Regardless, this topic is about scaling ie. syncing old content to minimum item level. It has no actual relation to how fast mechanics occur. And the game has been designed such that, in Dawntrail and Endwalker, everyone can clear the dungeon without a healer.

In fact, most of the Dawntrail bosses I've had the healer die and still beat the boss whether I've been playing a tank or a DPS, using abilities such as Bloodbath and Second Wind on DPS, or Shake and Nascent Flash on Warrior. So for as much as they may have made them faster-paced, they have made it easier than ever to carry eachother.

[Mawlzy]

snip.

It's admirable that you went to such lengths. And of course people improve in certain areas, simply through getting used to the oddities of 14 such as snapshotting. But you'll appreciate that the fact you were able to do this does not mean most people can.

Let me give a recent example. I did M1N. I died a lot. It was apparent I was "wasting the time" of those players who are more skilled than me. When I looked at a guide for M2N it was clearly much harder. I've chosen not to attempt it, and that is absolutely fine. It's not required content. But there isn't a magic wand I can wave that will allow me to participate in such duties without being a drain on the rest of the party. One cannot put a "challenge" earlier in the game that will alter my neurobiology.

Similarly, Duty Support/Trusts gets a lot of flak here because it allegedly simplifies dungeons, much to the annoyance of many players. But here people like me can actually practice and learn fights without inconveniencing players. And I can tell you what is learned is like ballroom dancing. My reaction speed and ability to read tells in general doesn't improve. They are capped. I can however learn how to negotiate that particular fight.

Ironically, I think a significant alteration in ilvl synch would provide a sort of solution to this more general problem, simply because it would gate 14 at a much earlier part of the MSQ and people would simply quit, thereby allowing the game to be harder for the survivors. But that is not an approach SE will ever take, hence my interest in solutions that are not fiscal suicide.

I bring all this up because these discussions have been going on for years, with independent camps demanding incompatible changes from the devs, then blaming each other when nothing improves. We need to find a different path.

[Supersnow845]

It's admirable that you went to such lengths. And of course people improve in certain areas, simply through getting used to the oddities of 14 such as snapshotting. But you'll appreciate that the fact you were able to do this does not mean most people can.

Let me give a recent example. I did M1N. I died a lot. It was apparent I was "wasting the time" of those players who are more skilled than me. When I looked at a guide for M2N it was clearly much harder. I've chosen not to attempt it, and that is absolutely fine. It's not required content. But there isn't a magic wand I can wave that will allow me to participate in such duties without being a drain on the rest of the party. One cannot put a "challenge" earlier in the game that will alter my neurobiology.

Similarly, Duty Support/Trusts gets a lot of flak here because it allegedly simplifies dungeons, much to the annoyance of many players. But here people like me can actually practice and learn fights without inconveniencing players. And I can tell you what is learned is like ballroom dancing. My reaction speed and ability to read tells in general doesn't improve. They are capped. I can however learn how to negotiate that particular fight.

Ironically, I think a significant alteration in ilvl synch would provide a sort of solution to this more general problem, simply because it would gate 14 at a much earlier part of the MSQ and people would simply quit, thereby allowing the game to be harder for the survivors. But that is not an approach SE will ever take, hence my interest in solutions that are not fiscal suicide.

I bring all this up because these discussions have been going on for years, with independent camps demanding incompatible changes from the devs, then blaming each other when nothing improves. We need to find a different path.

If you are worried about multiple deaths in your first attempt of a relatively on patch normal raid you are already blowing the average feedback of problems with difficulty and the general community sentiment out of the water

It is really really easy to see when someone is trying. That’s all anyone ever asks for

It’s people who spam cure 1 and go “shut up it’s not savage” that people actually have problems with

14 is supposed to be learnt by doing

[Mawlzy]

If you are worried about multiple deaths in your first attempt of a relatively on patch normal raid you are already blowing the average feedback of problems with difficulty and the general community sentiment out of the water

It is really really easy to see when someone is trying. That’s all anyone ever asks for

It’s people who spam cure 1 and go “shut up it’s not savage” that people actually have problems with

14 is supposed to be learnt by doing

Yeah, I'd have a problem with that too. And despite having all jobs leveled to 100, I've never seen either happen.

That said, I'm sure there are such players who don't put in sufficient effort and who are consequently essentially griefing party members. But I'm pushing back against the often-seen sentiment on these boards that there's this vast section of the "casual" base that is lazy and dragging the game down. The reality is a lot more nuanced than that.

[Jeeqbit]

Ironically, I think a significant alteration in ilvl synch would provide a sort of solution to this more general problem, simply because it would gate 14 at a much earlier part of the MSQ and people would simply quit, thereby allowing the game to be harder for the survivors. But that is not an approach SE will ever take, hence my interest in solutions that are not fiscal suicide.

I bring all this up because these discussions have been going on for years, with independent camps demanding incompatible changes from the devs, then blaming each other when nothing improves. We need to find a different path.

The thing is that this content used to be better, in the past. Syncing it better would just make it feel the way it was, when it was actually fun to do it.

You mentioned how it's a story-driven game. How is the story good if, when you fight the boss, they are a joke - you melt them and kill them really fast and skip all their mechanics, or the mechanics don't hurt? Cape Westwind, prior to being changed to a solo duty, was a good example of the lack of item level sync (watch if you want a really good laugh at this "guide"): https://youtu.be/sakHlfsV0eY?t=31

(The mechanics in Cape Westwind did genuinely wipe half the party if the boss lasted long enough, it just didn't last long enough due to item level)

The issues with a lot of other content are similar to Cape Westwind though.

While there are a lot of players that struggle with basic content (as I explained my experience with it), they usually get better at it. Some people may find they reach their limits with it, but a lot of people just didn't get good at it yet, or would find bosses that melt like that to not make logical sense in a game that is about overcoming powerful bosses and foes, and that very thing puts some players off as well.

Regardless, there are options to solve this such as the Unrestricted setting in PF, getting friends to help (as you mentioned you have an FC), or Duty Support.

[Mawlzy]

You mentioned how it's a story-driven game. How is the story good if, when you fight the boss, they are a joke - you melt them and kill them really fast and skip all their mechanics, or the mechanics don't hurt? Cape Westwind, prior to being changed to a solo duty, was a good example of the lack of item level sync (watch if you want a really good laugh at this "guide"): https://youtu.be/sakHlfsV0eY?t=31

I take that point. The flipside is it feels pretty ridiculous when you spend half of a trial dead, then when you come out the Scions tell you how amazing you are.

But my favorite WoD run was during a DDoS attack when half the players DC'd and that mean ol' Cloud put up a struggle.