Can anyone clearly explain "job homogenization" in this game?

[Supersnow845]

There is almost nothing that would hurt the expression of skill and make this game more stale than removing raid buffs. The difference between groups that consistently line everything up and groups that do not is huge. Removing team play from an mmo is a really bad idea, just like the idea of making jobs without burst moments.

Since raid buffs are necessary to add real depth of optimization to the game, burst will always be prioritized over sustain. There is nothing unique or interesting about adding burst to odd cooldown timings. The whole idea of removing 2 minute burst timings must be rooted in people wanting to play with no regard for synchronizing with their team. Some people just want to do their own thing, but why play an mmo then?

“Synchronising burst in ShB required communication”

“Now everyone’s burst syncs by default”

“Burst synchronisation now requires communication”

Literally how did you manage to argue the literal reverse of the truth unironically, like I don’t even want ShB stale design but random burst CD’s back but you are literally saying that burst is good for an MMO because it requires communication then point to the modern design where your job’s CD’s do it for you

[Carighan]

I mean it's not like other MMORPGs don't exist, and hence trivially invalidate many claims you could put forth.

"It's a bad idea to make non-burst jobs" - well, tell that to the MMOs who did so successfully and used burst-vs-procs-vs-DPS as a way of differentiating the playfeel of their various damage dealers. Apparently they never knew that doesn't work, if only somebody had told them!

"Groups that consistently burst is skill expression" - yeah sure, if we're talking early sprout levels, fine. The burst is normalized on a 120s CD by now, so all you got to do is hit that button the moment it comes up. Just like with any other oGCD you got. Can you screw it up and forget? Of course you can. Anything might go wrong. But it's not exactly rocket science to press your big CD every time it comes off CD. And voila, it's now aligned. Devs did that for you by homogenizing the CDs across the jobs. Which probably wasn't a bad change, like I said in the very beginning, a degree of homogenization or certain types is entirely normal and in fact wanted.

"Raid buffs are necessary to add real depth of optimization" - ooooh boy, I don't even know where to start with this. But hey, you bring forth a hypothesis, so the onus of proof falls onto you. Why is that necessary?

[HikariKurosawa]

Neither of you play this game at a high level so I don't know why you're even remarking. If you wanna remark about how this game has become easy or automatic, the onus is on you to play at a high level first.

[Supersnow845]

Neither of you play this game at a high level so I don't know why you're even remarking. If you wanna remark about how this game has become easy or automatic, the onus is on you to play at a high level first.

1) I do

2) if you do play at high level and you are still asking all these questions the onus is on you to actually understand how the job system works in this game

[HikariKurosawa]

1) I do

2) if you do play at high level and you are still asking all these questions the onus is on you to actually understand how the job system works in this game

1) No you absolutely do not rofl.

2) I never claimed to play at a high level. I made this thread because it's inconceivable to me that people would believe this game has a job homogenization problem and I wanted to understand where they were coming from, like I keep saying. Turns out it was just a joke made by people who don't understand game balance.

[Supersnow845]

1) No you absolutely do not rofl.

2) I never claimed to play at a high level. I made this thread because it's inconceivable to me that people would believe this game has a job homogenization problem and I wanted to understand where they were coming from, like I keep saying. Turns out it was just a joke made by people who don't understand game balance.

1) okay if it makes you feel better about your wrong opinions then sure believe I don’t do high end content

2) balance doesn’t preclude homogenisation. If your original point was “why do you believe less homogenisation is worth more than better balance” then you should have opened with that (because ironically the homogenisation balance axis and where jobs should fall on it IS a divide topic that people disagree on), instead you opened with “the jobs aren’t homogenised” then when everyone pointed out clear examples you pivoted to “yeah but that’s not homogenisation because that’s good balance” which shows you literally have no idea what the word homogenisation means. If you had said “good example but I think that’s worth it because it allows for better balance even if it makes the job less original” pretty much the entire thread would have at least acknowledged your opinion even if they didn’t agree with it (and many would have agreed as many DO value balance over job diversity). It’s your weird “there is no homogenisation but the homogenisation there is is actually balance so it doesn’t count” that rubs people the wrong way

[HikariKurosawa]

1) okay if it makes you feel better about your wrong opinions then sure believe I don’t do high end content

2) balance doesn’t preclude homogenisation. If your original point was “why do you believe less homogenisation is worth more than better balance” then you should have opened with that (because ironically the homogenisation balance axis and where jobs should fall on it IS a divide topic that people disagree on), instead you opened with “the jobs aren’t homogenised” then when everyone pointed out clear examples you pivoted to “yeah but that’s not homogenisation because that’s good balance” which shows you literally have no idea what the word homogenisation means. If you had said “good example but I think that’s worth it because it allows for better balance even if it makes the job less original” pretty much the entire thread would have at least acknowledged your opinion even if they didn’t agree with it (and many would have agreed as many DO value balance over job diversity). It’s your weird “there is no homogenisation but the homogenisation there is is actually balance so it doesn’t count” that rubs people the wrong way

I said, there is no homogenization problem in this game. That's different than saying there is no homogenization in this game. This thread is about people who complain about the homogenization, not the existence of homogenization itself. Which is very minimal in this game.

[Supersnow845]

I said, there is no homogenization problem in this game. That's different than saying there is no homogenization in this game. This thread is about people who complain about the homogenization, not the existence of homogenization itself. Which is very minimal in this game.

I see this word thrown around a lot but I don't think you know what it means.

Please educate me on how jobs are homogenized in this game.

Remember this quote

You accused people of not knowing what homogenisation is at all. This isn’t about a “homogenisation problem” this was you opening with the belief that people didn’t know what homogenisation was then when people explained it to you you pivoted to the belief that homogenisation in the pursuit of balance isn’t actually homogenisation

[Carighan]

Neither of you play this game at a high level so I don't know why you're even remarking. If you wanna remark about how this game has become easy or automatic, the onus is on you to play at a high level first.

Ah, ad hominem.

Of course, it becomes a bit silly when you yourself are the only one who has failed to play on a high level.

You do realize in this game we can see which your character is from your forum profile and it's easy enough to find out since it's public what you have done/havenotdone? As in, we can see you have not even finished normal raids, nevermind savages or anything higher than that? This is all public information. Maybe next time check how easy/difficult it is to figure out how much of a liar you are, first.

[Valence]

Neither of you play this game at a high level so I don't know why you're even remarking. If you wanna remark about how this game has become easy or automatic, the onus is on you to play at a high level first.

I do play the game at high level and unlike most I don't hide my profile either. Unless if by high level you meant world first or first week clearance, then I do not, no.

I don't think the game has become easy or automatic. Jobs certainly have by miles, but encounters have not, quite the opposite.