FFXIV has lost it's heart

[Exmo]

Who the hell cares? That happened off-screen and before Dawntrail started. Any story and world building where 99% of the attrition gets resolved in flashbacks is pure garbage.

The people whining about Dawntrail care enough they have to make up stuff to pretend that's why they don't like it.

[Hallarem]

In 2.0 there was a moral dilemma presented by the concept of faith, primal worship, and tempering that implied the act of belief itself could give rise to unimaginable harm even when its source was from creatures as mild and well-tempered creatures like moogles. Much like the player and the scions, Gaius (and by extension, the Garleans) sought a solution to the endless spiral of conflict perpetuated by the primals. (The eikons, not the band.)

And then... it kind of just resolved itself overnight. It was a little jarring. What was even more jarring, was after that, they proceeded to use the power of the 'good' primals to fuel the magic rocket ship immediately after. The 'Myths of the Realm' series inadvertently turns the 12 into primals in ALL but name, makes them all simultaneously useless idiots who sit around and get worshipped all day, and then commit suicide by cop as soon as they feel they've 'fulfilled their duty.' We even get some nice bits of apologism from Halone, Nophica, and Rhalgr. (The elementals are only racist to moon cats and duskwights because they WUV YOU)

We went from playing in a nobledark setting to playing the Final Fantasy equivalent of Fairy Tale (as if Kingdom Hearts didn't already exist as a SE property) in a little over the span of a single expansion. Infantile is correct. 2.0's destruction has been catastrophic for the story and any stakes we could have possibly had in it.

The elemental apologist was some hefty bad writing. "Please understand their murder, they love you"
Let alone from one of the Twelve. That was one of the warning bells to me that they are softening the writing and hiding any nuance away of the elementals defending their own territory and their horrid deeds.

[Hallarem]

"Combining their food" happened at the celebration after peace talks had already commenced. Its importance is it symbolised a compromise between the two cultures could be reached. Peace talks began in the first place because the biggest meanest motherfucker in the land showed up and told them to sit the fuck down.

Oh definitely. But lets not pretend that the food wasnt the centerpiece as some weird epiphany of "Oh duh. I never saw it like that. Todler writing.

Same with how the Mamool Ja were just "pretending" to be dimwitted abroad and supposedly for a tribe that sends so many warparties abroad and outside of their territory, none of them had the bright idea to bring seeds to test with them if they grow in their lands. Ah doiiiiiiiii

[Zakuyia]

The people whining about Dawntrail care enough they have to make up stuff to pretend that's why they don't like it.

Not gonna lie. I don't know if you hit ur head on the corner of a table, or your less than room temperature IQ tried to go into overclock mode....but what you said is the dumbest thing so far.... im sorry but.........yeah.....that was hella stupid and you should be ashamed of yourself for saying that. Im highly dissapointed you would think ppl are making up opinionated statements lol

[Exmo]

Oh definitely. But lets not pretend that the food wasnt the centerpiece as some weird epiphany of "Oh duh. I never saw it like that. Todler writing.

I'm not sure where you're from but where I live we often have these food fairs where people from across the world share their cuisine for locals to enjoy, as a way of sharing culture and encouraging mutual understanding and empathy. My understanding is these kinds of celebrations -using food to strengthen social bonds - is not uncommon in the world. So this story beat in DT didn't feel far fetched to me.

Same with how the Mamool Ja were just "pretending" to be dimwitted abroad and supposedly for a tribe that sends so many warparties abroad and outside of their territory, none of them had the bright idea to bring seeds to test with them if they grow in their lands. Ah doiiiiiiiii

First things a fun little retcon, we don't need to pretend it's a cardinal sin.

Second thing, none of them had the academic background to be able to identify the right seeds for their environment and the connections to procure them. That's what made Koana and Erinville perfect for the job. Recall how there's no great university in the Mamool Ja village and they explicitly resisted opportunities to foster strong relationships with other societies. People who leave that culture wouldn't immediately become genius agriculturalists, friends and brothers to all.

[Exmo]

Not gonna lie

That was a lie.

[Kennar]

I don't disagree that what used to make the "heart" of this game has gradually vanished over the years, but I think it's less to do with the direction of the game and more to do with pining for bygone years.

I disagree. People are "pining for bygone years" because the direction of the game has changed. Shadowbringers and Endwalker destroyed a lot of the mystery that had been built up since 1.0, and Dawntrail gave us an entire continent full of people so agreeable as to be completely ridiculous. Every bit of conflict or discord is quickly resolved in the purifying light of Friendship and Forgiveness.

Even the English script (I can't comment on other languages) has been sanitized and made to be as non-offensive as possible; witness the modern affectation of using they/them pronouns (e.g. calling a singular robot "they" instead of "it," or an NPC calling my character "she" and "they" in the same sentence, which is just silly), or NPCs never acknowledging your character's race (I only remember two Roegadyn in the entire MSQ, Kettenramm and my character, and nobody seemed taken aback by a giant grey-skinned woman). I remember being a little shocked while running an alt through ARR and an NPC said "I brought the Elezen bitch." That line would never fly in the game now. DT sanded off all the rough edges that the game's world used to have.

The story doesn't have to be perpetually violent and dark and depressing, but there has to be some of that to make for an authentic, believable world. Everyone getting along all the time feels fake, and that is just one of many problems with DT.

[Dikatis]

Mind you, maybe slaves is the wrong word for it, indentured servitude maybe? Something akin to Ul'dahs debt slavery. Maybe I read into that too much, but the whole notion of any nobility was struck out from the main picture. It's not that I crave darkness, but the world was written as pretty dark in ARR even, more so in Heavensward and Stormblood, Shadowbringers too and suddenly it just began softening up. So turning it suddenly into this fluffy paradise is really jarring. It's total change of tone in the worldbuilding and it doesn't fit.

Sure, then. It probably still exists but it definitely isn't the focus of Endwalker because of the expansion of scope. ARR-SB were fights for individual nations and the power dynamics within them. ShB and EW were about a fight for one's very existence in the face of cosmic powers. There's obviously going to be less attention paid to political matters when the storytelling focus is elsewhere.

We COULD have learned more about the nature of bonded and free citizens in Eulmore, but we'd wind up taking away from the sin eater conflict and the nature of the First surviving in a post-apocalyptic environment. We'd also have to take away screentime from Emet-Selch and his idyllic Amaurot, or how he's a multi-faceted character who never lies but is nonetheless an unreliable narrator with rose-tinted glasses born of his love for his people.

Similarly in Endwalker, we could have discussed more about Radz-at-Han's various powerful houses, but that would involve taking away screentime from the meat of the conflict and the storytelling about perservering and the value of life even through the worst of suffering.

I wouldn't say the worldbuilding is weaker so much as the writing has shifted with Ishikawa at the helm versus Maehiro, since she's definitely much bigger on emotions and big philosophical questions than she is on politics. This leads to more focus on contests of ideals versus the shifting of power and the gambits plied by those trying to seize it.

Even in Dawntrail, where the worldbuilding is a bit sparser than past expansions, we still get the picture that Tural is not quite a utopia free of conflict (despite what some people on the Forums would have you believe), but definitely the kind of place where a hero-king made his mark, for better or worse. The focus of the story is more on the weight of memory and legacy and how our interpretaions of both shaped the trajectories of the characters and the nations within it. Gulool Ja Ja isn't perfect or omniscient, but he sets a precedent that encourages his people to live in harmony, resulting in a city-state closest to Minfilia's ideal of people of all shapes living side-by-side in harmony next to G'raha Tia's Crystarium. Even then, we have bandit attacks, reports of corrupt businessmen, dirty cops in the frontiers, and people constant plying the Dawn's Promise for favors in hopes of getting their way.

So while I get your criticisms, I don't really think the worldbuilding is somehow that much weaker that the game has lost its "heart" as the OP put it.

[Hallarem]

I'm not sure where you're from but where I live we often have these food fairs where people from across the world share their cuisine for locals to enjoy, as a way of sharing culture and encouraging mutual understanding and empathy. My understanding is these kinds of celebrations -using food to strengthen social bonds - is not uncommon in the world. So this story beat in DT didn't feel far fetched to me.


First things a fun little retcon, we don't need to pretend it's a cardinal sin.

Second thing, none of them had the academic background to be able to identify the right seeds for their environment and the connections to procure them. That's what made Koana and Erinville perfect for the job. Recall how there's no great university in the Mamool Ja village and they explicitly resisted opportunities to foster strong relationships with other societies. People who leave that culture wouldn't immediately become genius agriculturalists, friends and brothers to all.

"Seed doesnt grow here. Lets try other seed" doesnt need a science degree. Its trial and error the most basic science even a todler can do. But I see you are now writing for the writers. So Ill stop here.

[Hallarem]

Sure, then. It probably still exists but it definitely isn't the focus of Endwalker because of the expansion of scope. ARR-SB were fights for individual nations and the power dynamics within them. ShB and EW were about a fight for one's very existence in the face of cosmic powers. There's obviously going to be less attention paid to political matters when the storytelling focus is elsewhere.

We COULD have learned more about the nature of bonded and free citizens in Eulmore, but we'd wind up taking away from the sin eater conflict and the nature of the First surviving in a post-apocalyptic environment. We'd also have to take away screentime from Emet-Selch and his idyllic Amaurot, or how he's a multi-faceted character who never lies but is nonetheless an unreliable narrator with rose-tinted glasses born of his love for his people.

Similarly in Endwalker, we could have discussed more about Radz-at-Han's various powerful houses, but that would involve taking away screentime from the meat of the conflict and the storytelling about perservering and the value of life even through the worst of suffering.

I wouldn't say the worldbuilding is weaker so much as the writing has shifted with Ishikawa at the helm versus Maehiro, since she's definitely much bigger on emotions and big philosophical questions than she is on politics. This leads to more focus on contests of ideals versus the shifting of power and the gambits plied by those trying to seize it.

Even in Dawntrail, where the worldbuilding is a bit sparser than past expansions, we still get the picture that Tural is not quite a utopia free of conflict (despite what some people on the Forums would have you believe), but definitely the kind of place where a hero-king made his mark, for better or worse. The focus of the story is more on the weight of memory and legacy and how our interpretaions of both shaped the trajectories of the characters and the nations within it. Gulool Ja Ja isn't perfect or omniscient, but he sets a precedent that encourages his people to live in harmony, resulting in a city-state closest to Minfilia's ideal of people of all shapes living side-by-side in harmony next to G'raha Tia's Crystarium. Even then, we have bandit attacks, reports of corrupt businessmen, dirty cops in the frontiers, and people constant plying the Dawn's Promise for favors in hopes of getting their way.

So while I get your criticisms, I don't really think the worldbuilding is somehow that much weaker that the game has lost its "heart" as the OP put it.

They pretty much admitted that Endwalker was two expansions smashed into one. Thats why the pacing was off and proper time wasnt given to nuance but the main theme. I feel like the worldbuilding has become much weaker bjt I respecr your opinion on it too.