【Suggestion】MCH "Pure DPS"

[Akamadoshi]

Hello, I wish to hear feedback from the community about the idea.
I want to play MCH, but it is considered very weak right now as a pure DPS.
This makes me uncomfortable and many recruitments exclude MCH (FRU)
There is a lot discussion about the firepower from MCH and the handling of gauge.
Because I am not a very smart thinker, I may be wrong in my suggestion.
Please feel free to share your ideas/thoughts and if I am wrong correct me.
(Please be kind to each other in the comments)

My idea of thinking for suggestion is:
Would it make a difference if MCH changes from "Pure DPS" to "Raid support DPS"?
Meaning, it receives a raid buff and it no longer is pure DPS, so it supports the rDPS?
For example, Bard is not meant to be "high firepower driven job" but it balances by song.
I wonder if this could help out the MCH? Because I do not know how balance works,
I could be imagining something unrealistic, so please let me know in the comments.

[TheMightyMollusk]

I just wish they'd either commit to selfish DPS levels of damage, or give it some support back. Right now it has neither, outside of role skills (and Tactician, which might as well be a role skill, since it's identical to Shield Samba and Troubador anyway).

[Akamadoshi]

Eh... no, I'd rather it stayed a pure or "selfish" DPS, as I'm not much inclined to play a "support" one to the point that BRD is one of my least favorite jobs precisely because it feels boring to me just standing there buffing, managing DoTs, and hitting like a wet noodle otherwise while everyone else gets to have fun. (DNC at least keeps me awake and I only really need to pay attention to one other person.)

Tactician is about the extend of how much I'm willing to support others while playing MCH, and even then it's a case of "I'm going to pop it when *I* need it, and if it happens to help someone else, good for them".

Thank you for giving feedback as a Main Machinist how you feel about this!!! I do not like DoT management myself, I truly do not like it on RPR also, especially as it takes a GCD and gauge management tougher (depending on what raid, it is fine most raids) but are you saying when a DPS becomes support, it is often with DoT? That makes sense, I did not think about it or put it together.
I was only wondering "Adding a raid buff" and that is all, but not change the entire rest of the job itself! I wonder what you think of this? So, nothing but "1 raidbuff", but the rest maintains.
Since MCH already has a unique secondary mitigation, tactician becomes "raid buff" instead, if we imagine it this way, what do you feel?

[Mimilu]

I've never been a MCH-main(so take what I say with a grain of salt) but ever since ShB, I don't think the dev team had any idea on what they wanted MCH to be. They gutted a lot of their old mechanics (even stealing their RNG weaponskill procs for DNC) just to make it a vanilla, quick burst DPS. （●´・×・｀●）

[Azurarok]

I used to be in the pure dps camp but I can take either after learning what the job used to be before ShB. I think it had both higher dps and more support skills back then.

Hypercharge used to be a move that makes turrets apply a defense debuff on targets, turrets used to have modes to heal mp/tp, gauss barrel increased potencies at the cost of adding cast times, it had a stun that shared its cooldown with head graze, wildfire used to do damage based on the amount of damage you squeezed into its window, you had to watch when to fill the heat gauge to line it up with Wildfire, and the main combo being proc-based also played into it. It also had lead shot as a dot to sustain but I don't think that's needed though.

[Connor]

I mean, as someone who started in ARR the idea of Machinist being a Black Mage / Samurai counterpart is just bizarre.

If you ask me they should be throwing out turrets to pulse buffs / debuffs, throwing wrenches or whatever was going on with Rend Mind, damage reduction skills like role skill Palisade (i remember you, Palisade!). Basically, something closer to PvP Machinist than what we have now. Frankly I just don’t really get the point in having another ‘big burst no(low) support high numbers’ DPS when there’s already literally an entire category of DPS whose main design philosophy is ‘big burst no(low) support high numbers’ (it’s melee). Not you, Ninja.

Plus doesn’t making it a pure selfish dps make it literally unbalanceable?

The phys ranged role is supposed to provide ‘support’ and ‘sustained damage’ (lol wut), but if there’s one that has absolutely no support, that entire role identity goes down the drain and ultimately devolves into a Heavensward BRD vs MCH buff battle where any single adjustment on one job basically cancels out the other. I.E MCH is pure personal dps BRD is support. Any buff to MCH is going to be a buff to BRD too, so either it’ll need super high personal dps which would cause problems for other roles (why take a melee or a caster when you can take a lolranged), or Bard (or Dancer) would pull ahead and Machinist would be useless. Likewise if Machinist’s personal dps is higher than the rDPS Bard/Dancer output, it just invalidates their existence. I mean, I highly doubt people would give their melee/BLM spot to a MCH just so they could also take a Bard or Dancer (which is impossible anyway because I think it’d still break lb generation?)

[Akamadoshi]

I actually really like the similar ideas people have given out!! I hope in time the posts will be noticed for the good constructive suggestions!
It also makes sense what many people point out. I hope to hear more about it!

[Azurarok]

it’ll need super high personal dps which would cause problems for other roles (why take a melee or a caster when you can take a lolranged)

I kinda think that's largely because current MCH has very few fail states or mobility limits compared to any other job in the game, let alone SAM and BLM.

imo it comes down to whether people want its easy rotation to stay or not. A complex rotation for higher personal dps, or more support skills.

WHM and SGE are also in a similar pit.

[Connor]

I kinda think that's largely because current MCH has very few fail states or mobility limits compared to any other job in the game, let alone SAM and BLM.

imo it comes down to whether people want its easy rotation to stay or not. A complex rotation for higher personal dps, or more support skills.

WHM and SGE are also in a similar pit.

Haven’t those fail states all but gone for the majority of classes though? I’ve seen the esoteric secrets of 100% instant cast BLM rotations.

I mean, does it really need to be so all-or-nothing? Like couldn’t Machinist have a satisfyingly complex rotation and more (or just any lol) support capabilities? Does a ‘complex rotation’ necessarily need to output mathematically superior dps? To me it wouldn’t really matter what the actual output was as long as it was fun, interesting, and had its own distinct identity other than ‘does what BLM/SAM do but worse but you can jump while attacking’.

[mallleable]

They should give MCH walking casts like it does in PVP which will dramatically increase its damage output, and then give it a grappling hook, and rocket jump as movement abilities.