Can anyone clearly explain "job homogenization" in this game?

[HikariKurosawa]

Same timing =/= same gameplay. I am not going to argue with you, I understand what you think now and I know to never take anyone who talks about homogenization in this game being a problem seriously. Hopefully this thread serves the devs well. It was good to have this talk, everyone came out clearly with how ignorant they are.

[ovIm]

Same timing =/= same gameplay. I am not going to argue with you, I understand what you think now and I know to never take anyone who talks about homogenization in this game being a problem seriously. Hopefully this thread serves the devs well. It was good to have this talk, everyone came out clearly with how ignorant they are.

I know you gaslight yourself into believing that you had this massive incredible "gotcha!" in this thread by "exposing" those that have a different opinion than you, but the reality is - your takes are as hollow as your choice of ignorant words, and everyone with half a days worth of knowledge about how game design actually works would never take your takes seriously.
But it is okay, understanding that you write these things because you are afraid that you will not be able to actually play this game unless everything is super simplified, means that we can take you as serious as you deserve to.

Thank you for this thread though, it allowed actual competent people to exchange some good ideas and expose actual issues with how the game is designed.

[Carighan]

I know you gaslight yourself into believing that you had this massive incredible "gotcha!" in this thread by "exposing" those that have a different opinion than you, but the reality is - your takes are as hollow as your choice of ignorant words, and everyone with half a days worth of knowledge about how game design actually works would never take your takes seriously.
But it is okay, understanding that you write these things because you are afraid that you will not be able to actually play this game unless everything is super simplified, means that we can take you as serious as you deserve to.

Thank you for this thread though, it allowed actual competent people to exchange some good ideas and expose actual issues with how the game is designed.

Couldn't have said it better myself. TY.

[Commander_Justitia]

I really would have more fun playing with Eureka skills in e.g. Baldesion Arsenal type content, with mobs that you need to cc, with elemental vulnerabilities, with preset additionals picked from a variety of skills, with skills like death and protect/shell/autolife/bloodbath/stances other than our PvE main game gameplay at the moment.

The differences between having just different potencies and actual skill effects. The difference between having a glorified trial boss vs. an actual raid that you need to clear from mobs. Imagine Pandemonium raid series, and instead of just fighting the bosses, you could have actually entered it, till the deepest levels...It would be alike WoW raids, where you feel immersed in the raid envrionment. Where mobs could wipe you if you are playing poorly. Where the envrionment may kill you if you step into a trap. Etc. This is SE's wasted potential sadly, since years.
They made a raid like that again with Bozja, but like Baldesion Arsenal - the duties are difficult to access. Which is the main problem. People need to organize it in discord etc. People would love such duties, while being easily accessible....

[jonimated]

Same timing =/= same gameplay. I am not going to argue with you, I understand what you think now and I know to never take anyone who talks about homogenization in this game being a problem seriously. Hopefully this thread serves the devs well. It was good to have this talk, everyone came out clearly with how ignorant they are.

Oh wow. Hey everyone, this is actually amazing news.

So now that you've proven that you're smarter than everyone by *checks notes* disagreeing with everything everyone says all the time, you can leave the forums now. Right? Like after playing the game for *checks notes again* 3 years, you clearly have all the answers. You know what's right and despite the fact that everyone disagrees with everything you say all the time you're right and everyone else is the crazy ones and always wrong. The devs should actually just hire you. You have, with this single thread, shown us all how unbelievably intelligent you are. You're right and we're all wrong.

So there's nothing left to do then leave right? I mean everyone here is always wrong so why keep talking? You can just leave. Your work here is finally over. You can rest and let the adults talks silliness amongst ourselves. You no longer need to involve yourself. Godspeed little genius, and I hope you finally hit level cap one day.

[Valence]

Saying that the 2min meta is making burst more complicated is a little pushing it, especially when everyone just has one or two buff buttons to press when they come off cooldown every 2 minutes... Not exactly rocket science. It's something we tend to read from players that came during ShB or especially after. ShB didn't have the 2min meta yet and even in its extreme series of simplifications raid buffs still required some thinking in order to see what jobs would align with each other within each different party composition, and how to make the most of it. Even RDM actually still had a magic damage Embolden back then and it only affected specific jobs (casters) and not the rest (mostly), which informed specifically when to use it and for who.

And then we can go back in time and start looking at certain jobs that had completely unique and different buff patterns, like AST that had no divinitation or anything but cards, and those could be played at any time, giving it a lot of flexibility and rewarding actual skill expression for when to use them into buffs. It is still partially the case but the removal of systems like Royal Road have made it only a shadow of what it used to allow (namely big AoE party buffs of all kinds), especially in combination to other freeform raid buffs, notably, Foe Requiem and Hypercharge.

So what about Foe Requiem? Well, during HW and SB, Foe Requiem was a freeform raid buff with a very low recast (below 10-15s iirc?), because its main limiter was based on actual resources, here MP consumption as long as the buff was kept active, which depleted MP relatively fast. A good BRD could trigger this raid buff at 0s, then 60s again for a lower gain at half MP if it made sense for example. Or actually, the team could find clever synergies and give the BRD MP refreshes so that the BRD could use this buff in patterns like 0min, 1min, 3min, 4min, etc, trying to cover as many different buff patterns for different jobs (60s, 80s, 90s, 120s, 180s). It wasn't uncommon in SB to see the caster manashift the crap out of the BRD in order to refresh MP for more Foe Requiem, but then, you also had as a BRD to take into account that Battle Voice still doubled song efficiency back then, and finding ways to still get the most out of BV was also a thing. This was during Stormblood by the way, which had already simplified a great deal raid buffing on the role that was actually designed to play heavily around raid buffs. In HW Foe Requiem (and old Hypercharge on MCH) still consumed MP and could be refreshed by clever plays, but it was also possible to change the song and play for example Mage Ballad which was the MP party refresh on BRD (manasong), and that could be doubled by BV in effectiveness as well (and manasong was mandatory in the old battle system for prolonged fights). On MCH's side, promoting the turret to swap to MP/TP regen could also be doubled by Hypercharge.

Just to put things in perspective of how much the system has been pruned of in terms of job skill expression, uniqueness, and raid buff synergies and tactics, and this is just about 3 of the job roster. I didn't even bring Ninja and Smokescreen/Shadeswalker to the table.

[HikariKurosawa]

Crazy how much thought you guys put into having bad takes. Must be exhausting. Certainly is exhausting to read all this yapping. Can't be bothered.

[Connor]

Crazy how much thought you guys put into having bad takes. Must be exhausting. Certainly is exhausting to read all this yapping. Can't be bothered.

‘I cant be bothered but I’m going to reply to every post with blatant rage bait’

Seems like you can and are being plenty bothered lol

[jonimated]

Crazy how much thought you guys put into having bad takes. Must be exhausting. Certainly is exhausting to read all this yapping. Can't be bothered.

Keep coming back though, don't you? Seems like you are really, really, bothered.

As I said you've already proven how smart you are. You can just leave now. Maybe you can spend all your new found free time not being on the forums to finally hit level cap.

[HikariKurosawa]

Keep coming back though, don't you? Seems like you are really, really, bothered.

As I said you've already proven how smart you are. You can just leave now. Maybe you can spend all your new found free time not being on the forums to finally hit level cap.

This stuff is all very subjective, it's fine to want the game to be unintuitive and highly pedantic, but that's not how it's going to be and it's a good thing too. I'm glad I took the time to understand where you're all coming from though. I would never want to play the game you want this to be.

I took my leave from this thread a while ago, then came back when I had something to add about how ludicrous it was to call the 2 minute meta homogenization, and now I'll leave again because this thread has already served its purpose. You can go on and on about how "good" the game used to be, but it's never going to be like that again. If it does, so many people will unsubscribe the game would be unplayable. I guess you would have plenty of time to think about your "deep" job design while waiting hours to form a group for any form of content though.

I'll leave you with one question though, how exactly does the same timing = the same task? How are you going to say nin is homogenized with drg or sam or reaper? How about blm smn rdm and pict? How about brd mch and dnc? Do you even play this game? I don't think you do outside of limsa lominsa + mods.



Ah yes yes, just pressing one or two cooldown buttons every two minutes.

oh yeah for sure so simple.

yep again "just two cooldown buttons"

I just can't care to engage very deeply with you people. It's a joke, right? The homogenization angle.