Dawntrail character graphics update - opinions, requests and discussion megathread

[Khryseis_Astra]

I believe the new direction is to make the game more realisitic and closer to FFXVI and I'm here for it, even though it takes time to get adjusted to the face's features that were changed during the graphical update.

That’s all well and good… I loved 16! But it’s not giving me those vibes at all, and honestly the two worlds these games exist in are quite different, so I wouldn’t expect them to look similar. Regardless of art style, and yes I do like the “anime-esque” look of 14, a shape is a shape. There’s no good reason to change the actual shapes of the eyes, noses and mouths. You can’t change those shapes and still have a face look like the same person. And if it’s more “realism” they’re after, in some cases, the older ones looked more realistic than the new ones! I keep going back to CuteBucket’s lips a few pages back, but it’s the perfect example. All the shape and texture was removed and it’s the new ones that look flat and more angular than they should be.

[noumen0nn]

That’s all well and good… I loved 16! But it’s not giving me those vibes at all, and honestly the two worlds these games exist in are quite different, so I wouldn’t expect them to look similar. Regardless of art style, and yes I do like the “anime-esque” look of 14, a shape is a shape. There’s no good reason to change the actual shapes of the eyes, noses and mouths. You can’t change those shapes and still have a face look like the same person. And if it’s more “realism” they’re after, in some cases, the older ones looked more realistic than the new ones! I keep going back to CuteBucket’s lips a few pages back, but it’s the perfect example. All the shape and texture was removed and it’s the new ones that look flat and more angular than they should be.

Agreed. There is plenty of nuanced discussion to be had about style, but I think we're starting to miss the forest for the trees a bit here. "Style" isn't why they got the shape of facial features wrong--they just did a bad, rushed job recreating them. Things like Au Ra scales being visibly unattached from the face in certain areas, the outright errors in F roegadyn normal maps, smudgy eyebrows, etc. is all the evidence we need of this. The devs need to spend the entire 7.1 patch cycle matching the geometry, diffuse, and normal maps of the new faces as closely as possible to the old ones. Anything short of this is a half-measure at best, and is not acceptable.

[CidHeiral]

I think it's just a case of one solution not fitting all.

Agreed.

Anime style doesn't really work in FFXIV (imo) because we lack cell shading and proper shaders to make it look convincing as a anime game.

They're not referring to cel shading but yeah, while there are certainly anime references and inspiration here and there I've personally never found the game to have an overall anime art style. I suppose that's in the eye of the beholder though.

But why do they remind you of his eyes specifically, and not of any cartoon or anime character with red irises, white scleras and painted eye highlights? Why was this the first example you had in mind to describe what you didn't like about the eyes prior to the graphical update? Is it not because, even unconsciously, that contrast and sense of discomfort left an impression on you that you were trying to convey by sharing this example?

My dude, you are extremely high strung. I used that example because it was funny. Relax. Breathe.

So, genuinely, I have a hard time understanding why you would play a game for so long if everytime you looked at your own character or NPCs in cutscenes, you had issues with the stylized eyes, or you would think "what's with these soulless automatons that look like they just got back from war".

The same reason I play any old game that doesn't look great: because it's fun.

[Risough]

Previous Post

My character looks the same in 7.1 as he did in 7.0. The lines at the inner corner of the eyes remain. The philtrum and upper center tubercle of the lips are still flattened relative to how they looked in Endwalker. I hate to think that the feedback I worked to put together was dismissed as spec, but if so I urge the team to reconsider that stance!







As I've played in 7.0 I've noticed the lines in the inner eye deform strangely with expression. Any time he raises his eyebrows in surprise or concern they stretch as though they're drawn on. I also think the eyebrows may be weighted a bit too strongly as their expression feels exaggerated.



The furrows almost look to be the result of the upscaling algorithms that were applied to the old texture, which Yoshi-P discussed in the benchmark update announcement. I reiterate my request to have these lines adjusted or softened to get the face closer to the feel the face has had until 7.0. There is also a sort of texture to the nose. These could also be due the upscaling algorithm. I've taken some screenshots of my character in a few different lighting conditions that best show that texture:



Some have mentioned that the expressions feel off and I agree after reviewing my screenshots. The upper lip seems to be stiffer when my character smiles. The smile is more of a curl at the corner of the mouth rather than across the whole mouth as you'd see in real life.



The issue doesn't affect every expression but I've seen it in a lot of cutscenes. The /smile emote feels more natural and is closer to the way characters smiled before the update. A lot of the smiles after the update seem to use /simper, which is a lot stiffer. Look at the difference between /smile and /simper:




I echo the calls to keep working on player character expressions and features. While there have been improvements in the overall lighting, player character faces are still in need of care.

[Rinoa_353]

It's ok to think the old eyes were shit compared to the new ones. Which is the case also for me.
I liked the old ones to an extent but with the newest materials the eyes look 10x better and more alive, added to the materials on the skin it's a great combo.

Anime style doesn't really work in FFXIV (imo) because we lack cell shading and proper shaders to make it look convincing as a anime game.
Also pointy features were due to a lack of polygons and vertex when modeling the characters back then.

I believe the new direction is to make the game more realisitic and closer to FFXVI and I'm here for it, even though it takes time to get adjusted to the face's features that were changed during the graphical update.

I also look forward to the graphics updates we will get in future patches and in 8.0 once PS4 support is dropped. I want this game to look good and hope they add ray tracing too. My only complaint is the facial stripes on my Moon Miqo is too faded looking, please make it dark, I don't want to change the color, I want to keep it to preserve Minaa being Ranaa's twin.

[Mr_Gucky]

It's crystal clear that SE is speculating that we'll forget the whole thing at some point. The long silence at the beginning of the DT update, the vague formulations from Mr. Yoshida and now the half-baked “improvements” for the faces in 7.1 (and not even for the frequently requested ones. From what I've noticed, that would be Miqo'te 4 and Aura 2, 4), show that SE doesn't want to or can't do it.

Of course they shy away, the effort would be massive and the result would be that another part of the players would grumble, who are satisfied with the current look of their WoL. The rest wouldn't notice anyway, they only care about outfits or using Fantasia every week.

I don't think I have to tell anyone what a central role the own WoL has for everyone, but I would say for some it is even more important than the story or other gameplay elements. The fact that the appearance (more or less depending on the race/face) is no longer the same as what you've been used to and grown to love for several years is really sad and also a loss of trust.

For my part, I have drawn the consequences and am only active because of my guild. The story has been put on hold for the time being and other game activities have been reduced to a minimum and I will no longer spend a cent in the online store.

[lunartears]

FF14 is the only "character creator" game I've played where I have been able to make and play as a self-indulgent character that I wholeheartedly loved and this is the primary reason why I don't want to unsub even though her face is now mangled. I've tried other games before, tried out other MMOs and FF14 just hit everything right for me - aesthetically, graphically, writing, soundtrack and gameplay wise. I'm just waiting for the final nail in the coffin (with 7.2 probably not doing anything), then I'll grieve her forever - miserably subbed or not.

I know there are painstaking ways to get old faces back and I came across something for my face type (with issues and some strange extras) but it doesn't resolve anything, I shouldn't have to use tools like that to get my character remotely back to normal and besides nobody else can see it so... I don't see the point. I just want to have my WoL back vanilla, as it was before.

[Iscah]

It seems like people unhappy with the glorious "character update" and active in this thread have already unsubscribed. All these years of geniune love and devotion to the game just have been flushed down the toilet by SE management. I'd like to say many things, but as it's completely pointless, I'd rather not waste my breath.

I'm still here, still disappointed with how my character looks, still barely touching the alts I used to love dearly.

It hasn't been a matter of getting used to it; she simply looks like she has an entirely different face to the one I picked for her and went through the story with. It reminds me of what used to be the oddness of encountering another female Midlander with the same hairstyle/colour but a different face – compared to face 3's original shape, the other faces had sharper features, narrower eyes, less rounded cheeks – and now all those differences are the changes that got inflicted on face 3 as well.

[cutestfox]

I'm down to my last alt that still has the forum picture of my non-DT character
It is a miracle it's lasted this long. I can't even stand looking at the new one

[-Kairi]

I know what you're talking about and I have the answer: It's because the eyeball texture was changed to look more realistic and veiny. There's a pinkness around it to replicate flesh, that might be what you've seen. The old texture was just greyish and flat, no veins or pink at all.

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RE: Eyebrow Changes

Not playing Miqo'te, but I thought I also had grey eyebrows instead of white. However, looking closer it looks like the eyebrows are instead thicker now.
This is just in my case, and not related or the cause of the issue on Miqo'te and the least of my concerns as my hairstyle covers my entire face almost, but i'll point it out regardless.

Top: Old / Bottom: New



God, I miss those old scales.

Really, it's like they've used the paint bucket tool underneath the texture as opposed to colouring the hairs and that's giving the impression of "darker eyebrows". I also reported this change during the Benchmarks.

I'm sure they chose to do this because they wanted to go "realistic/high definition" but it doesn't really fit Au Ra...

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Each time I open the Endwalker benchmark to get some screenshots, I feel so sad. I'm always thinking "Oh so that's where you've been." when I load my creation data.

It would be nice to hear something from the development team about all of the things discussed thus far.

The old scales look so good, actually. Wow.