About DAWNTRAIL SMN and future

[Tint]

Upon using Bahamut:
Ifrit - Fire
Titan - Earth
Garuda - Wind

then upon using Phoenix:
Leviathan - Water
Ramuh - Lightning
Shiva - Ice

though I'm not sure what would be fitting beyond that

Odin

We don't really need more than these most iconc FF summons. That's what people want and everything more would just distract from the summons the people know and would enjoy to use.

[ArchlordPie]

Hi! SMN main here since Heavensward.

ShB SMN was so awful to play that I raided as RDM for that expansion. I think there's a better balance to be found between the oGCD vomit of 5.0, the 2%-less-scuffed mess of 5.1, and the braindead rotation SMN currently has. I like that current SMN lets you do the "chunks" of your rotation in different orders, so you can move them around based on what movement is or isn't happening in the near future. Unfortunately, that's basically the only instance of strategic planning or forethought that SMN requires, which is one of the two core traits that defines the caster DPS role. (The other is... y'know, cast times. Which have widely been going the way of the dodo since 6.0 as well but that's a subject for a different thread.)

I like the "different batches of summons depending on which big summon just got used" idea in post 10. I get why Ifrit, Titan, and Garuda got grouped together, but that doesn't match the astral/umbral divide that's part of what defines 14's elements. You'd need to group Ifrit, Shiva, and Ramuh together with one summon and Garuda, Leviathan, and Titan together with the other to match that. And good luck getting that to make sense to someone still doing the pre-50 job quests.

Personally, I'd be in favor of nixing the Bahamut/Phoenix/Solar Bahamut divide entirely and just making them all the same button with different /egiglamour skins you unlock from doing content. Like, full clear Coils for a Phoenix skin, full clear Alexander for Alexander of course, full clear the Omega series for Omega, Eden Prime for the Eden series... what would Pandaemonium offer? Phoinix? Athena? A crowd of Ascians chanting "PAN-DAE-MO-NIUM" on cast? ...maybe Proto Carbuncle?

In a perfect world, you'd have a minor summon for most every primal and mythical creature we fight in this game and we'd pick and choose which ones to bring to a particular fight as if they were Pokemon, based on what happens in the fight and what movement is (or isn't) required during any given section. But the problem with that is that the playerbase would very quickly math out what combination of summons was the highest DPS and post it on the Balance. And like magic, using literally any other summons at all becomes grounds for getting kicked and blacklisted from PF until you use "the correct" summons.

Which is probably one of the main reasons SE hasn't bothered changing anything with SMN beyond making the class not awful to play. Now it's just boring. Which is better than awful, but not by much.

[Manamaru]

We've fought 44 Primals across all main and side content, and SMN has yet to see anything beyond the original trio, Bahamut, and Phoenix. The devs are clearly not interested in incorporating any of the others, so I have long since given up and am expecting the 110 capstone to be a second Phoenix.

If you noticed how the 90's summon animations, attack, and disappear animations are basically lifted from Heaven on High's magicite (and where it was placed elsewhere) you'd be scratching your head why they haven't at least added Odin into the mix of summons. But they can't bring themselves to include any actual other primals, it seems.

I’m still trying to figure out if square is happy with EW SMN or if they regret it...

EW summoner is a blend of FF16's Clive's "imbue yourself with primal energy and unleash attacks" mixed with bits of what previously remained with the previous incarnations of summoner and order of bahamut to phoenix. The previous versions with the egi's still have some pathing issue that sends it to head straight for the target when it should no longer do that.

No doubts they have some regrets for how things turned out. But they are holding out on giving more than just 5 summons. Picto's subtractive pallete mode shows how you could keep switching to at least another 5 different summons if they kept following the "1, 2, 3, bahamut, 1 , 2 , 3 , phoenix" rotation. Would they ever introduce something like that? Highly doubtful.
When EW change also happened, I don't know who thought it'd be a good idea to make one of the raid fights, proto-carbuncle, have all the DOTs and other stuff that you used to be able to do. It was like a slap in the face and rubbing your face in it. Hence I'll never do that raid series.

[Khryseis_Astra]

We've fought 44 Primals across all main and side content, and SMN has yet to see anything beyond the original trio, Bahamut, and Phoenix. The devs are clearly not interested in incorporating any of the others, so I have long since given up and am expecting the 110 capstone to be a second Phoenix.

lol still holding out hope that for our “dark” summon we get Shinryu! But as a 16 fan, I’d settle for Odin.

I’ve posted it before but I think it would be cool to get the other 3 core primals introduced in ARR
It would give Summoner every element (even if elements don't mean much these days)

Upon using Bahamut:
Ifrit - Fire Titan - Earth Garuda - Wind

then upon using Phoenix:
Leviathan - Water Ramuh - Lightning Shiva - Ice

This would be along the lines of my ideal, although as said above, I think we’ll get a “dark” summon to balance with Sol Bahamut. And I’d assume that’s the next thing we get, even if to me it would have been way more logical to add in the other 3 elements first!

The idea I liked best (the DPS forum has a few variations on this theme) would add Levi, Shiva, Ramuh as gem summons and whatever they choose for the dark summon as the 4th demi, and then the elements would need to be split into their astral/umbral teams, with a button similar to Subtractive Palette or Transpose that lets us choose which team we start with. One, it would give SMN the full range of elements. Two, it would add the duality of astral/umbral to SMN, which would bring it in line with BLM’s astral/umbral phases, PCT’s palettes and RDM’s white/black split. Nice and balanced, right? lol

Honestly though, I’d be ecstatic if we just got Levi, Shiva and Ramuh as gem summons, even without any fancy astral/umbral mechanics. Give me my full cast of elements, rainbow of gems and rainbow of Carby colors!

[CVXIV]

Odin

We don't really need more than these most iconc FF summons. That's what people want and everything more would just distract from the summons the people know and would enjoy to use.

Honestly yeah I love Odin, he's my favorite summon and I'm pretty disappointed how he's implemented in ff14, not having much of a presence
The special fate is pretty cool at least

[Azurarok]

Should Levi, Ramuh, and Shiva be added, what would their gems be? Aquamarine, Amethyst, Sapphire?

Also what could their Gem Shine and Astral Flow moves be?

[Daralii]

This would be along the lines of my ideal, although as said above, I think we’ll get a “dark” summon to balance with Sol Bahamut. And I’d assume that’s the next thing we get, even if to me it would have been way more logical to add in the other 3 elements first!

My assumption is that they designed and named Sol/Solar Bahamut to be the light to normal Bahamut's dark, and it just got the name to juxtapose the Meracydian Bahamut being imprisoned in what was thought to be a moon. That would mean no new dark counterpart.

[VeyaAkemi]

Personally, I'd be in favor of nixing the Bahamut/Phoenix/Solar Bahamut divide entirely and just making them all the same button with different /egiglamour skins you unlock from doing content. Like, full clear Coils for a Phoenix skin, full clear Alexander for Alexander of course, full clear the Omega series for Omega, Eden Prime for the Eden series... what would Pandaemonium offer? Phoinix? Athena? A crowd of Ascians chanting "PAN-DAE-MO-NIUM" on cast? ...maybe Proto Carbuncle?

Instead of making it strictly tied to Raid series, it could be tied to all sorts of contents, like maybe we could get the Twelve(like all 12, individually) from Myths of the Realm, Enkidu from Hildibrand, so on.

[ArchlordPie]

Instead of making it strictly tied to Raid series, it could be tied to all sorts of contents, like maybe we could get the Twelve(like all 12, individually) from Myths of the Realm, Enkidu from Hildibrand, so on.

That's where that train of thought was going, yeah. I just had Normal Raids on my mind at the time I made that post. Most dungeon and trial bosses could technically work for this too with little more effort than adding spawn and despawn animations and tying their actual casts to the yell/roar animation every boss already seems to do in their introduction cutscenes anyway.

[mallleable]

Should Levi, Ramuh, and Shiva be added, what would their gems be? Aquamarine, Amethyst, Sapphire?

Also what could their Gem Shine and Astral Flow moves be?

My fanfiction versions of Ramuh, Leviathan, and Shiva would for Ramuh, you would cast a series of lightning spells to charge up an instant finishing spell, Leviathan would be all movement attacks (like En Evant, but damages everything in you path), and Shiva your character would turn into their version of Shiva, and it would be a full melee phase.