Still no auto-combo for 123 on old jobs.

[Shurrikhan]

I just gave you an example of high end optimization in which that's possible.

You are either refusing to read what I wrote or insisting that there is a case where it is optimal to use a skill of 140-180 potency (an unprepped and therefore DoT-less Chaotic Spring) over literally any common action that would supply 300+ ppgcd more.

Chaotic Spring without a combo does not apply its DoT. It's just the 140-180 potency, less than even a Piercing Talon or True Thrust.

For it to apply its DoT, as you'd want before a boss jumps away, you would have to reset your combo 2 GCDs earlier. Until that Chaotic Spring is prepped, there is zero value in hitting that skill.

That would be like saying one should use a weakened, combo-breaking Piercing Talon from melee range. No. The CT/CS you use off-rhythm before downtime is nonetheless prepped. As such, it requires having reset your combos prior to use.

[Aco505]

You are either refusing to read what I wrote or insisting that there is a case where it is optimal to use a skill of 140-180 potency (an unprepped and therefore DoT-less Chaotic Spring) over literally any common action that would supply 300+ ppgcd more.

Chaotic Spring without a combo does not apply its DoT. It's just the 140-180 potency, less than even a Piercing Talon or True Thrust.

For it to apply its DoT, as you'd want before a boss jumps away, you would have to reset your combo 2 GCDs earlier. Until that Chaotic Spring is prepped, there is zero value in hitting that skill.

That would be like saying one should use a weakened, combo-breaking Piercing Talon from melee range. No. The CT/CS you use off-rhythm before downtime is nonetheless prepped. As such, it requires having reset your combos prior to use.

The second part of my comment was a general statement on the thread itself. Perhaps that's where the confusion comes from?

Only the first half of my reply is directed specifically at the quote in which you claim that you never break combo unless it's, for instance, to reset a DRG combo, which by the way you still don't in most cases: you keep going with the "mistake".

I believe my message was quite clear: in the event in which the boss leaves and most of your GCDs ghost, Chaotic Spring can still be a gain when used without combo because it has a very quick damage application. As long as this downtime is longer than 30s or the GCD you'd end up with was not favorable (e. g. Fang and Claw) because it'd mean taking too long to refresh Power Surge when the target comes back.

Just like pulling with Piercing Talon or even Doom Spike could be a gain before they buffed the former if it got you a GCD by starting a fight earlier, as could be the case in P7S by allowing you to get the GCD before the first knock up.

And as I said, there's more examples, such as uncomboed Aeolian Edges with Kazematoi stacks being a gain at the end of a fight in certain circumstances.

[Valence]

I want this. Stop projecting. Also it's very ironic that the character you're posting with has no funny numbers on display to prove your skill with how your attitude is.

I wouldn't bother with craven trolls that enjoy poking fun at public profiles while hiding their own, and then moving the goalposts when proven wrong. Enjoy seeing that goalpost being kneejerked even faster than it takes for SE to sand down jobs.

[GoatOfWar]

They make zero sense.

I also recommend reading the post I made somewhere earlier about people enjoying scripted things, even as easy as 1-2-3, vs people enjoying other things and seeing little value in this.

Nobody is saying pressing 123 is hard. Nobody cares about pressing 123 in a vacuum.
The simplification process doesn't work that way. They just remove or sandblast one thing at a time until there's nothing left.
This has been an ongoing process for a long time now. The combat in this game is already extremely barebones and people want to sandblast it even further.
Don't you get fucking bored? And what does this mean for the people who are already unhappy about the direction of the game, when the game gets dumbed down even harder?

[Valence]

Nobody is saying pressing 123 is hard. Nobody cares about pressing 123 in a vacuum.
The simplification process doesn't work that way. They just remove or sandblast one thing at a time until there's nothing left.
This has been an ongoing process for a long time now. The combat in this game is already extremely barebones and people want to sandblast it even further.
Don't you get fucking bored? And what does this mean for the people who are already unhappy about the direction of the game, when the game gets dumbed down even harder?

And nobody is advocating to remove those combos in exchange for nothing else. And nobody disagrees that knowing SE's track record, that'd probably be what they'd do, realistically. It's been the same back forth for 13 pages by now with people talking past each other because they can't read what the other side writes and would rather argue against strawmen.

[GoatOfWar]

And nobody is advocating to remove those combos in exchange for nothing else. And nobody disagrees that knowing SE's track record, that'd probably be what they'd do, realistically. It's been the same back forth for 13 pages by now with people talking past each other because they can't read what the other side writes and would rather argue against strawmen.

Square doesn't add meaningful abilities outside of expansion releases. They only remove things and give you one new ability to cramp into the burst window at expansion release. That's it.
That's all they ever add. You'd have to be naive to think square will look at the game in 7.2 and go.. ''yeah let's consolidate these buttons and add something meaningful to fill up the gap'' No, they don't do that and never have. They'll just remove things and make the game easier, like they always do. That was the feedback they got, so that's what they deliver. This is how they've been simplifying the game since Shadowbringers. They just remove and remove.

[BigCheez]

And nobody is advocating to remove those combos in exchange for nothing else. And nobody disagrees that knowing SE's track record, that'd probably be what they'd do, realistically. It's been the same back forth for 13 pages by now with people talking past each other because they can't read what the other side writes and would rather argue against strawmen.

Yes, they are. In fact, I haven't seen anyone suggest something to replace the lost combo actions.

In addition to this, when was the last time that SE added something to a job to increase it's complexity? If they consolidate combo actions, there is an approximately 0% that they would add anything new to fill the empty space.

[Absurdity]

Yes, they are. In fact, I haven't seen anyone suggest something to replace the lost combo actions.

In addition to this, when was the last time that SE added something to a job to increase it's complexity? If they consolidate combo actions, there is an approximately 0% that they would add anything new to fill the empty space.

Not even to increase complexity, just anything that has interaction with your kit and isn't a finisher unlocked by pressing your burst cooldown or a fire & forget oGCD.
Although I guess that would inevitably increase complexity.

[TBerry]

Isn't that hat VPR did?
It's nice and all but suddenly the XHB and WXHB feel so empty.
Also not viable on Bard because you have no combos in that sense.

[jonimated]

From what I can see the argument in favour of consolidating basic combos is that the combos aren't exactly difficult to begin with. You always press the same buttons in the same order with no variation, so why have them on different buttons. Ok fair. That's entirely true.

The issue with the argument comes when you realize that logic can be applied to the entire kit of nearly every dps job, and every tank. Playing these roles in FFXIV essentially comes down to pressing a set list of buttons in a specified order with no variation. Due to the lack of random elements in Job kits all dps jobs, save for Bard and Dancer, and every single tank could set a whole 10 minute fight to a single button. The only reason you can't do that currently is simply because FFXIV doesn't allow for macros like that. Otherwise it would be totally feasible to do.

So while I do agree with the argument at face value, and I don't want to take anything away from people who would enjoy the game more if basic combos were on 1 buttons, you have to understand the argument could be applied to nearly the entire game's combat system. If we started to consolidate buttons simply because "they are always used in the same order and it's not difficult to do anyway" then you start to erode any reason for almost any Job to have more than 1 button to begin with.