Fix the freaking matchmaking in CC

[Loggos]

We don't have "mere supports" anymore, in addition, that's not unique to this game. In at least one other game that I played that was designed for PvP , the highest ranked players , out of all jobs, were what you (rather dismissively) refer to as "mere supports". Given 2 skilled players- it definitely was more challenging as a DPS to compete against someone who had both good attacks , utility and heals.

All of this to say that we don't have roles any more, I can understand the argument being made that some jobs should have more utility or more DPS skills than others, however all jobs are "resilient DPS", and yes- given a skilled player, why shouldn't a healer or potentially a tank (a) be able to significant damage and (b) potentially be a difficult opponent? It's not unknown in PvP games.

Huh? Really confused how my comment could come across so wrong but I'm not dismissing healers/supports at all. I play PvP healers extensively both in this game (I was a SGE and AST main before 7.1, so I understand the concept - and the fun - of a DPS healer, that's what I loved SGE for and what I am dearly missing after the update) as well as in other pvp games.

My point is not that we need a super neat distinctions where healers don't do anything but heal and tanks don't do anything but tank. That completely misses what my comment is about.

I know that we don't have strict roles but as you say yourself: a class that has it all - damage, heals/mit and utility will have advantages over a class that doesn't.
We still have soft roles though: tank jobs are geared more towards tanking wrt both their kit and the job they most commonly take over in a match. Healers are geared more towards healing which is why they have much more means to keep others (and themselves) alive than red jobs.
And no, there are definitely classes that are not resilient DPS. There's a reason why they are called squishies.
So we also can't say that the distinction between roles doesn't exist at all or is obsolete
This means there still needs to be some balance. A class shouldn't be Reinhardt, Sojourn and Mercy all in one whereas others are only Tracer.

Take (pre 7.1) SGE for example. Technically a healer but had massive DPS. However its DPS was balanced with SGE not healing as much. At the same time it was super squishy so you had to work around that.

And if you look at tanks and healers in Overwatch, some of them are great for DPSing but they often have a much simpler DPS kit. Their strength lies in their ability to stay alive longer and use that strategically to their advantage against jobs that have more extra means of damage but less sustain.

Right now we have some classes that are much closer to being universalists who excel in all three areas. This gives them a clear advantage over classes who aren't.
And that's the problem I was talking about.

[IDontPetLalas]

Huh? Really confused how my comment could come across so wrong but I'm not dismissing healers/supports at all. I play PvP healers extensively both in this game (I was a SGE and AST main before 7.1, so I understand the concept - and the fun - of a DPS healer, that's what I loved SGE for and what I am dearly missing after the update) as well as in other pvp games.

My point is not that we need a super neat distinctions where healers don't do anything but heal and tanks don't do anything but tank. That completely misses what my comment is about.


Take (pre 7.1) SGE for example. Technically a healer but had massive DPS. However its DPS was balanced with SGE not healing as much. At the same time it was super squishy so you had to work around that.

And if you look at tanks and healers in Overwatch, some of them are great for DPSing but they often have a much simpler DPS kit. Their strength lies in their ability to stay alive longer and use that strategically to their advantage against jobs that have more extra means of damage but less sustain.

Right now we have some classes that are much closer to being universalists who excel in all three areas. This gives them a clear advantage over classes who aren't.
And that's the problem I was talking about.

snipped (length)
I appreciate your adding your prior experience of playing a healer- I understood that it was in other games in addition to this game, because I have not really seen this game have what i would consider to be a DPS healer as yet.

That being said, I don't believe I misread your earlier remark. Nor are we disagreeing on a number of points. We can nitpick on what is or is not "resilient", yes some jobs are tankier than others. However if I take a specific example, such as healers- I would say that they have a good mix of both damage, utility and healing. They c an contribute and they won't just be picked off . They can be fun to play. My definition doesn't mean that they can necessarily go and duel any job.

Now 2 points since I am in a bit of a rush- you made a comment about some jobs having "ridiculous" damage and no job can have it all- regarding the "ridiculous damage" - maybe, too soon to tell, I believe that part of the complaints could be valid, part is due to people adapting. Regarding "no job can have it all" - - yes, I absolutely agree with you, however, not so easy to design. I realize I'm in a CC thread, so I will leave this and say that we are waaaaay overdue to have separate CC and FL job designs because the last thing I want is to kneecap any job in one mode because changes are made that make sense in a very different mode