Still no auto-combo for 123 on old jobs.

[Absurdity]

I mean PCT is the perfect example of showing that 1-2-3’s were always just artificial bloat

You can split the aetherhues apart totally and you’d add 8 buttons (aero in green, aero 2 in green, water in blue, water 2 in blue, stone in yellow, stone 2 in yellow, thunder in magenta and thunder 2 in magenta). PCT well and truly has the hotbar space to add 8 new buttons, hell you could also split the hammer combo adding hammer brush and polishing hammer for a total of 10 added buttons.

But…..there is simply no point; it adds absolutely nothing to PCT’s gameplay and adds no complexity, all it does is artificially inflate its button count. I’m not saying to remove them but changing them optionally to 1-1-1 doesn’t change the state of the job and I’m usually one who opposes all “complexity reducing” changes on principle

I'd say there is a bit more nuance to it. 1-1-1 works on Picto because it's a dps and has more going on even during it's neutral game.

But take Warrior or Dark Knight for example that spend about 60% of their GCDs on just the basic filler combo. Turning that into 1-1-1 wouldn't be any easier or harder but it changes the gameplay "feel" significantly, spending 60% of your GCD presses on the exact same button gets quite close to healer territory of boredom.

[GrizzlyTank]

I want release DT monk again.

[Valence]

I'd say there is a bit more nuance to it. 1-1-1 works on Picto because it's a dps and has more going on even during it's neutral game.

But take Warrior or Dark Knight for example that spend about 60% of their GCDs on just the basic filler combo. Turning that into 1-1-1 wouldn't be any easier or harder but it changes the gameplay "feel" significantly, spending 60% of your GCD presses on the exact same button gets quite close to healer territory of boredom.

Pepperidge Farm remembers when tanks had 2 combos and different branching paths...

[Shurrikhan]

I'd say there is a bit more nuance to it. 1-1-1 works on Picto because it's a dps and has more going on even during it's neutral game.

But take Warrior or Dark Knight for example that spend about 60% of their GCDs on just the basic filler combo. Turning that into 1-1-1 wouldn't be any easier or harder but it changes the gameplay "feel" significantly, spending 60% of your GCD presses on the exact same button gets quite close to healer territory of boredom.

Aye, but... consider any other use of those buttons thereby freed up.

DRK, for instance, once had 3 combos, atop a real Dark Arts and an extra DoT and AoE GCD. If we trim that down nearly to the barebones we're left with now but repurpose the bloat buttons, we'd still be able to replace same-AoE-builder-but-for-every-odd-numbered-press and continue-filler-ST-but-for-the-second-of-three-waltz-steps and continue-filler-ST-but-for-the-third-of-three-waltz-steps with real actions, such as Dark Arts and a second combo, allowing us to, say, focus healing now vs. focusing shielding later.

Even just 2 keys in fixed 3-step cycles (not counting non-combo-breaking actions between steps) allows for 8 different combined (paths of) action(s). With interaction into those intervening actions, far more.

AAA
AAB
ABA
BAA
ABB
BAB
BBA
BBB

[HyperSMB]

There is no fun for me in playing a piano. I am 36 and have better things to be giving myself Carpal Tunnel for than hitting a basic combo.

1-2-3 collapse them all. Fold any skills that MUST follow another into each other and then make the fights harder if you need to compensate for it being easier.

[Collin_Sky]

I'd say there is a bit more nuance to it. 1-1-1 works on Picto because it's a dps and has more going on even during it's neutral game.

But take Warrior or Dark Knight for example that spend about 60% of their GCDs on just the basic filler combo. Turning that into 1-1-1 wouldn't be any easier or harder but it changes the gameplay "feel" significantly, spending 60% of your GCD presses on the exact same button gets quite close to healer territory of boredom.

Have you considered that by reducing the number of buttons the basic combo takes, they will have space for new and more interesting buttons to prevent such boredom from occurring?

[Kandraxx]

I actually wouldn't want it on all classes either. SAM is mostly ok because the whole class basically revolves around the Hakaze branches, tanks are somewhat gray area, hitting 1-2-1-2 sequences in their 123s would be like very niche situations and on WAR you would actually never want to do that. The problem with tanks is that you need 5 comfortable keys right off the bat to essentially emulate ST and AoE auto attacks. If you take another game as an example, Guild Wars 2 has 123s on almost every weapon, but their rotation is on one button and can also be turned into a full right-click auto attack. The devs over there probably realized early that they can't make the player hit a button sequence for hours on end while simultaneously managing the other skills AND allowing him to actually have fun with the game itself.

But as I said in my OP, for things like the RDM melee chain it makes absolutely no sense to the point where I feel like if the situation was reversed and people would say: ''please un-combo it'' then Square would actually ask why they would ever want that on different buttons.

Picto is a weird one because even with the main 123 being an actual auto-combo, there is still stuff that makes no sense. Color Palettes are mutually exclusive yet the Fire in Red & Blizzard in Cyan (II) chains need to be bound to different keys. Same goes for Holy in White & Comet in Black, you can never choose between both at the same time. Hammer needs 3 buttons to get it 'online', you need to paint it to enable another key which in turn then enables you to start hammering...erm, what? Maybe they did it to keep the door open for another weapon painting in the future, otherwise it's a waste of a key.

[Absurdity]

Have you considered that by reducing the number of buttons the basic combo takes, they will have space for new and more interesting buttons to prevent such boredom from occurring?

Oh, you mean how every bit of homogenization, reworks and simplification over the last three expansions opened up new opportunities for interesting abilities or gameplay?
Ask the Machinists, Summoners or literally any of the healers how that worked out for them so far.

Actually nevermind. I can tell you as a Warrior player, a job that hasn't had one giant rework but instead had all it's nuanced gameplay slowly sanded off over time, ever since the 4.2 rework, and replaced with mindless "finisher" spam.

[Nero-Voidstails]

As a raider and former RDM main, there are indeed situations where it is actually better to cast Verthunder/aero despite being Verfire/stone Ready.

Example scenario:
You have both Verstone AND Verfire procs ready with 10 and 25 seconds remaining respectively. You cast Verstone and use up the proc, putting your mana at 51w/53b. You're about to have a lot of movement forced upon you by the fight mechanics, so you're intending to follow up your imminent Dualcast GCD with an Enchanted combo to keep uptime.

If you spend Dualcast on Verthunder in this situation, despite being Verfire Ready, you are guaranteed to exit your Enchanted combo with both Verstone and Verfire procs, since your mana will be 51w/58b upon execution of Verholy (giving you a guaranteed proc). Whereas if you cast Veraero you'd enter the combo with 54w/53b, and by the time your combo ends your pre-existing Verstone proc (if you had used Verfire instead) would have fallen off. Sure, Verstone has a 75% chance to proc between both the Veraero (50%) and Verholy (50%) casts, but it could have been 100%, and if it doesn't proc then you've just lost a free Verstone (assuming the rest of your proc RNG is the same).

While that may seem inconsequential, it is nonetheless a form of skill expression because casting Verthunder guarantees more damage. You're free to cast either Veraero or Verthunder in that situation and the only difference is a 25% chance to lose 20 potency. But a high-skill player would recognize that difference nonetheless and act accordingly.

Additionally, if the Veraero->Verstone and Verthunder->Verfire substitution is optional, but the devs add 2 new skills that are just as important to the rotation and compete with Verstone/Verfire for prime button real estate, the players who want avenues for optimization are now bloated with 2 more buttons while everyone else has the same amount of buttons as before. In other words, from this angle, one group is worse off, yet nobody is better off.



Now, Black Mage's Fire IV and Blizzard IV on the other hand... Please combine those. They can only be used while in their respective, mutually exclusive stances. Please.

Verstone and verfire are meant to take jolt place in the first place haha

[Saraide]

Have you considered that by reducing the number of buttons the basic combo takes, they will have space for new and more interesting buttons to prevent such boredom from occurring?

SE historically isnt very good at providing this new and more interesting buttons. They know how to take away, they dont know that they also need to give something in return. Just look at healer dps buttons.