Dark Knight Changes - Suggestion.

[AnjouMaaka]

Because you have this weird insistence that your opinion is just objectively correct and anyone else who opposes your opinion is just wrong

I DESPISE WAR’s dungeon design whether I’m playing the WAR, the healer or even the DPS watching the poor healers role get completely pasted over by boring uninteractive overpowered CD’s

I. DO. NOT. WANT. WHAT. YOU. PROPOSE. It would ruin the only tank I still semi regularly play in normal content. Please read that, and read that again and read that again till it sinks in. You aren’t a unilateral authority here, your opinion holds just as much weight as any of us and a lot of us hate your proposed suggestion

I'm sorry, but when you speak like this, using all caps for anything outside of abbreviations or highlighting a key word, and separating the words with periods like that, it's hard for anyone with half a braincell to take you seriously.

[Valence]

Why would anyone ask themselves that question when WAR is objectively not balanced defensively?

[AnjouMaaka]

Why would anyone ask themselves that question when WAR is objectively not balanced defensively?

Because warrior is the strongest tank defensively, and if that is considered balanced by the devs, then there is no valid reason for dark knight to continue lacking self sustain at all levels of play.

[Tigore]

Probably the more glaring things I noticed with DRK would be TBN and Oblation.

The TBN shield amount seems to be fine when talking to another Savage raider using the class. The issue is more so how Dark Arts procs and can slightly reduce your DPS as a cost ... to getting better gear? It basically needs changes to make proccing Darks Arts easier than it is now. The simplest way suggested would be to require that the person with the shield to just get hit or perhaps make Dark Arts prop up when the timer expires too. Other ways to explore could be to reduce the shield usage threshold to 1/4 to 1/2 and extend the timer a bit longer to 10 seconds if the first proposed changes are too simple.

Oblation does look lackluster with just a 10% damage reduction. If an HP regen is too much, some other areas to try could be blood gauge and mana gains for the DRK using it. Simply adding it to TBN as a trait would make proccing Dark Arts harder since the DR would make breaking the shield more difficult under the current live effects. It would have to be applied after the shield is gone like Carighan said to make such a trait good.

Dark Mind's overall suggestion seems to be making it a "personal Addle" so it retains an identity to being a little bit better against magic. I do agree the combo buttons can be consolidated to fewer button. The VPR already does that and it saves on space by using about 4 slots verses 12 for the triple combos they use. I know the example is weakened by the fact they use Vicewinder / Vicepit and Reawaken stuff more often, but the point still stands for the button space. This can give more room for future expansions on all the melee if they just need to use a few buttons for their combos. Possibly even getting back some of the older combos or abilities we used to have that are requested. Kaiten for SAM is one example. DRK also used to have a Scourge DoT with Delirium being an alternate combo finisher. Although GNB already uses a couple DoTs and DRK would probably need to use an enemy debuff similar to RPR's to differentiate themselves from what the other tanks do.

[Supersnow845]

The is not my "belief" on dark knight defensives, it is widely agreed that dark knight defensives are no where near enough. But your opinion comes from a frame of mind that's not based in reality. You still refuse to ask yourself this question: "If warrior is balanced defensively, then why is dark knight lacking so much defensively?" Until you can ask yourself that question and answer it objectively, you have no ground to stand on with this topic. I go to the widely agreed upon obvious changes that SHOULD be made, but you ignore that to insult me with a personal attack by accusing me of what you yourself are guilty of the way propagandist new anchors do with the public

Because WAR is not balanced defensively, again you basically just start from the foundation of “I’m correct” and work from there, I specifically said my opinion is my own and I don’t want what you are proposing nor do I believe WAR is balanced, you have no more say in that than anyone else

Because warrior is the strongest tank defensively, and if that is considered balanced by the devs, then there is no valid reason for dark knight to continue lacking self sustain at all levels of play.

That’s not logic at all because by the same logic DRK exists in the game as it does now which means the devs consider it balanced which defeats the whole purpose of your argument

You are talking out of both sides of your mouth trying to argue that WAR existing in its current state is evidence that the devs support WAR’s power but DRK also existing isn’t evidence the devs support DRK’s current power, you can’t argue that both ways at the same time

[AnjouMaaka]

Because WAR is not balanced defensively, again you basically just start from the foundation of “I’m correct” and work from there, I specifically said my opinion is my own and I don’t want what you are proposing nor do I believe WAR is balanced, you have no more say in that than anyone else



That’s not logic at all because by the same logic DRK exists in the game as it does now which means the devs consider it balanced which defeats the whole purpose of your argument

You are talking out of both sides of your mouth trying to argue that WAR existing in its current state is evidence that the devs support WAR’s power but DRK also existing isn’t evidence the devs support DRK’s current power, you can’t argue that both ways at the same time

Again with this entire facade about how I'm somehow asserting authority over you. The projection you are making is so unhinged I'm surprised anyone likes your comments. And I can totally argue both at the same time because both being considered balanced cannot be true. Only one of those can be considered balanced and because of how opposite they are of each other, and because of the direction the devs have taken everything with making dungeons designed to be a pushover to begin with, that means warrior has to be the balanced design and dark knight is no where close to being balanced defensively. You being unable to see the entire picture is not everyone else's problem, and projecting your insecurities about it as if you are being talked down to just makes your arguments even less valid. Nobody is talking down to you. But at the same time, no sane person would take you seriously when you keep that silly forum signature about how healers are no longer relevant because dungeons are designed to be a pushover. To which I ask, why haven't you already moved on to a different game that would satisfy your healer god complex? And that's a genuine question.

Honestly, dark knight is suffering so bad defensively that it's a running joke that playing the job in UCOB and UWU is considered griefing, and it's been that way for a long time. But yeah, I guess that's not enough to convince those that live in lala land.

[Supersnow845]

Again with this entire facade about how I'm somehow asserting authority over you. The projection you are making is so unhinged I'm surprised anyone likes your comments. And I can totally argue both at the same time because both being considered balanced cannot be true. Only one of those can be considered balanced and because of how opposite they are of each other, and because of the direction the devs have taken everything with making dungeons designed to be a pushover to begin with, that means warrior has to be the balanced design and dark knight is no where close to being balanced defensively. You being unable to see the entire picture is not everyone else's problem, and projecting your insecurities about it as if you are being talked down to just makes your arguments even less valid. Nobody is talking down to you. But at the same time, no sane person would take you seriously when you keep that silly forum signature about how healers are no longer relevant because dungeons are designed to be a pushover. To which I ask, why haven't you already moved on to a different game that would satisfy your healer god complex? And that's a genuine question.

Honestly, dark knight is suffering so bad defensively that it's a running joke that playing the job in UCOB and UWU is considered griefing, and it's been that way for a long time. But yeah, I guess that's not enough to convince those that live in lala land.

You aren’t “asserting authority” you are attempting to claim a silent majority or otherwise universally held belief as your foundation. “Oh everyone agrees with this” “everyone says this”. These are meaningless considering you are arguing your own personal opinion. If WAR is balanced then the other 3 are all extremely underpowered, just as if DRK is balanced then all 3 others are extremely overpowered. It’s more likely that somewhere between PLD and GNB is the balance point which proves neither WAR being overpowered nor DRK being underpowered

So again I’ll say I don’t want your changes, that opinion holds as much weight as your assertions. Wanting the healer to be an active part of content they are required to do is not having a healer god complex and it’s pretty rich saying I have a healer god complex when your entire argument is built on the sole foundation that you don’t want to rely on anyone but yourself as ANY tank let alone there is already two that fulfil that overpowered fantasy

I could just as easily ask you why you haven’t moved to an MMO (or a class considering WAR literally already exists) where tanks are all three roles in one

[AnjouMaaka]

You aren’t “asserting authority” you are attempting to claim a silent majority or otherwise universally held belief as your foundation. “Oh everyone agrees with this” “everyone says this”. These are meaningless considering you are arguing your own personal opinion. If WAR is balanced then the other 3 are all extremely underpowered, just as if DRK is balanced then all 3 others are extremely overpowered. It’s more likely that somewhere between PLD and GNB is the balance point which proves neither WAR being overpowered nor DRK being underpowered

First, you are quite wrong about claiming a silent majority. There's a loud majority out there on at least getting the Addle treatment for Dark Mind and I stand behind this suggestion because I was not the first to bring it up. Even you should agree this is not a bad suggestion, but that would require you to play dark knight in m3s, which I know you won't do, and you'll instead come back with another quick response without doing your research. You picked the wrong raid tier to defend the current design of dark knight defensives.

I don't want all 3 roles in one, because we already have that, and I got bored of it in Endwalker, but I don't want dark knight lacking defensively anymore. And if the balance is somewhere between paladin and gunbreaker, then dark knight still falls excessively short of that defensively and is not balanced. Try bringing your opinion into reality. Dark knight receiving a defensive buff is far from some kind of guarantee that it will suddenly be as strong as warrior. It won't matter how many times you state your very selfish opinion about not wanting what many want for dark knight, which btw, is not "everyone", you are not changing anyone's opinion on this, and only furthering the resolve to continue pushing for things that have been getting requested in ever more frequent numbers as the glaring issues with dark knight continue to be ignored. The paranoia about losing healer relevance in dungeons is unwarranted. You are too afraid of change here, and that much is obvious by the fact you have zero suggestions to resolve the issues that exist with dark knight defensives. What you want is not healthy for the game moving forward. Dark knight needs change whether you agree with that or not. You are vastly outnumbered by the number of players that want dark knight defensives to be addressed. You are preaching to the wind.

Eventually, the needs of the many will outweigh the needs of the few and dark knight won't get ignored anymore. Whether that happens before or after Square Enix loses thousands of subscriptions to ignoring dark knight suggestions is anyone's guess.

[Supersnow845]

“You are wrong about I’m claiming a silent majority”

Proceeds to claim a silent majority for 3 paragraphs

Great chat

[Shurrikhan]

First, you are quite wrong about claiming a silent majority. There's a loud majority out there on at least getting the Addle treatment for Dark Mind and I stand behind this suggestion because I was not the first to bring it up. .

Literally no one argued against this. You are again chucking red herrings like they'd otherwise detonate in your pants.

You argued that since Warrior has its current level of defensive power, it must be considered "balanced" and all other tanks should therefore be raised to its level of defensive power. This ignores that the defensively weakest tank also exists with its given comparatively weak level of defensive power, which would equally indicate that its defensive power instead is then the intended balance-point.

If mere existence serves as proof enough of design intent, either extreme is as likely the intended balance point as the other. It therefore wholly remains up for debate what amount of defensive power should be given to tanks.

You have argued that all non-WAR tanks should be further buffed, such as by giving every tank WAR's Raw Intuition atop whatever individual buffs the weakest non-WAR may need for parity.

Supersnow has argued that, instead, Warrior should be nerfed and the weakest buffed only as needed to bring all tanks to a level between that of GNB's and PLD's current defensive power.

If anything, that second camp has been the more commonly held across these forums, while the "silent majority" is, by definition, silent and therefore irrelevant.

Both result in the same tank balance, but one of them takes more work, further homogenizes tanks, and further disrupts inter-role balance in favor of what is already the most powerful role. And that's not the position Supersnow has favored here.