(genuinely. not sarcastically) Who is the 24 Man Savage For?

[Voidmage]

That explanation didn't make sense at all for me if you can "practice" with 12 people then you can clear with 12 if you would necessarily need 24 man then you shouldn't even be able to practice with 12. Delubrum Savage was also meant to be cleared with 24 but can be done with 10 lol

Hmm yeah true tbh. Then I don’t know why they made such a deal of the difficulty being for 24man though.
The more I think about it the less it makes sense to me.

[Gurgeh]

Ngl I found singularity reactor unreal way harder than some savages at least to a dps check point of view (EW and DT), as for your question this 24 man "savage" I wanna believe this is the bridge from EX to Savages which this game really needed desperately this content sits between Savages and Extremes in term of difficulty so it shouldn't be hard to clear instead its encouraged to reclear it multiple times. On a side note if you really wanna try harder content then this tier is your best bet cuz arcadion is a joke compared to previous tiers the mechs are friendly easy to understand and the dps checks inexistent this tier is very friendly for pf.

If you wanna have an idea about it probably Castrum Locus Litore (CLL in Bozja) is a 48 man raid but the last 2 bosses have some mechs that kills bunch of people, Some fates in bozja (24-48 man fates) have some high level of difficulty (Red Chocobo for example) but all that content is intented to be clear by anyone that ques into it. Also the 24 man savage can be done by 12 ppl so that actually means that the mechs are designed around 12 people and the other half can share responsibility so carries are also possible but thats just me we don't actually know.

Well that's good to hear. You know... I might just re-sub for that. Get myself back in in time to clear the next Extremes, and IF its reasonable get geared up.

I ain't doing unreals without friends again though.

But they 'need' to make it clear how the gear prep is going to work

And I want it spoon-fed to me by an official posting. (Not word of mouth worked out cryptically from Lvl requirements. e.g. it drops 730 gear means nothing 'precise' to me, the level requirements means nothing to me)
- What gear?
- Where do I get that gear from?
- How long (weeks) is it going to take me to get that gear? (I need to work out how many IRL disruptions can I have that mean I miss a week or part of a week)
Because if I'm too late back in to grind what ever normal raids are needed or whatever, then I'm going to (a) stop subbing all over again, and (b) be more 'unhappy' than ever.

If the take is, "well googling it and researching it is part of the game", then that's fine, they don't make this game solely for me, but it 'wouldn't' be for me. I'm not even going to risk disappointment, and I'll just keep waiting for the next sure reason to re-sub.

I need enthusiasm to do that kind of research, and that has run out. I want the game to be massively successful. I think the Creative III team are good people and I think they are passionate (but I think they have resource issues around SQX). But I'm not doing any of the 'lifting' any more.
Make it easy for me.
Make it a sure thing.
I'm not a gambler.

[VeyaAkemi]

I am personally looking forward to it, surely it is going to need more organization, but if people are able to coordinate 48 players together for BA and DRS, 24 is going to be a breeze.

Plus the rewards sound enticing, gotta get mah evil kinto'un.

[Vrankyl]

That explanation didn't make sense at all for me if you can "practice" with 12 people then you can clear with 12 if you would necessarily need 24 man then you shouldn't even be able to practice with 12. Delubrum Savage was also meant to be cleared with 24 but can be done with 10 lol

From what I understood of it is that it will work like flex raiding in World of Warcraft. You need a minimum of 12 people and can have a max of 24, and the mechanics and damage will scale to how many people are present in the raid.

[Gurgeh]

Tbh it might be a thing people do on release but die soon after and become a discord group thing. if current 8 player savage can't fill up, then i doubt 24 people in pf will at one given time.

Well that would be a shame.
Yeah I ain't doing that at all.
I expect to have an 8 week window in which to get the 'full' experience.

Especially in the brave new age of "play other games"
Very admirable, way better than the predatory stuff I used to hear about Blizzard. However, the architecture needs to be coherent, the play now and then model needs to be feasible/accessible.

[Jeeqbit]

There is a community around BA/DRS. It's likely for them.

It's also because, although a lot of people avoid raiding due to anxiety, it can be easier for some people to join a large-scale raid because their individual mistakes are harder to notice or get called out, due to the sheer number of people - which potentially helps their anxiety.

Depending on their design technique, it can also mean one of their mistakes gets patched up by one of the other 24 players, much like actual alliance raids. Whereas in 8-person savage, if you mess up, it's over. Given 12 people can enter, it's possible 12 others can "patch up" the mistakes of the other 12.

Another reason is people discussed how boring they found the EW alliance raids. This was a common sentiment towards them.

[AurisNix]

Well that's good to hear. You know... I might just re-sub for that. Get myself back in in time to clear the next Extremes, and IF its reasonable get geared up.

I ain't doing unreals without friends again though.

But they 'need' to make it clear how the gear prep is going to work

And I want it spoon-fed to me by an official posting. (Not word of mouth worked out cryptically from Lvl requirements. e.g. it drops 730 gear means nothing 'precise' to me, the level requirements means nothing to me)
- What gear?
- Where do I get that gear from?
- How long (weeks) is it going to take me to get that gear? (I need to work out how many IRL disruptions can I have that mean I miss a week or part of a week)
Because if I'm too late back in to grind what ever normal raids are needed or whatever, then I'm going to (a) stop subbing all over again, and (b) be more 'unhappy' than ever.

If the take is, "well googling it and researching it is part of the game", then that's fine, they don't make this game solely for me, but it 'wouldn't' be for me. I'm not even going to risk disappointment, and I'll just keep waiting for the next sure reason to re-sub.

I need enthusiasm to do that kind of research, and that has run out. I want the game to be massively successful. I think the Creative III team are good people and I think they are passionate (but I think they have resource issues around SQX). But I'm not doing any of the 'lifting' any more.
Make it easy for me.
Make it a sure thing.
I'm not a gambler.

You dont need to overthink it too much tbh so the way the savages raid works (8 man) those are designed to be clear with a full crafted gear (ilvl 710) all the savages are designed like that ofc with better gear easier it gets. So if you already have like full tome gear then you good to go, 8 man savages wouldn't be clearable in week one if all the players needed higher item level (arcadion was cleared in 8 hours lol). Unless they make like a very very dumb decision like Criterion Savage that actually required you to be BiS I highly doubt you need like super pentamelded bis gear or whatever, if you have 710 gear then you should be able to go into this new chaotic difficulty easily

[wereotter]

I do wonder where the Chaotic Raid will exactly fall in terms of difficulty...

I don't think it would be reasonable to expect 24 people to co-ordinate as well an 8-man group, so it's probably below Savage. But they said it will drop 730 gear, which is on the level Savage gear.

It's also coming out after the launch of ultimate, in 7.15 so even non savage players will have 730 gear.

Likely this is part of what Yoshida mentioned when he promised that players would be able to have access to more gear, especially since this won't have a weekly lockout. It's probably for people, like me, who are fine with joining in on groups for extreme trials, but who aren't really interested in the time investment for savage/ultimate. Also it could in theory open up additional gear set options for BIS for players who are taking on ultimate if it enables slightly more optimized stats compared to the gear you got from tomes/savage. We'll have to see if this new gear has different substats from the two sets already out.

[Wolferey]

That explanation didn't make sense at all for me if you can "practice" with 12 people then you can clear with 12 if you would necessarily need 24 man then you shouldn't even be able to practice with 12. Delubrum Savage was also meant to be cleared with 24 but can be done with 10 lol

from how I understand it:
- Mechanically, you need at least 12 people to do something that resolves a mechanic
- Numerically, you need ~24 people to do enough damage to kill it

so you can go in, do the mechanics, learn, but you'll always reach enrage and die because you don't have enough damage

[Stelle]

It's for me c:

To me this sound fun and chaotic and a great excuse to get FC and friends together. Like Bozja with it's 72 player instances? The chaos with so many players and everyone trying to work together is what made it fun to me. I've cleared pretty much every Extreme minus a couple from EW and I've been raiding off and on since ShB. I also do Unreals. As someone who mains healer, healing stuff in Field Operations and Alliances esp when they're new is super fun cuz you gotta stay on your toes to prevent people from dying or a wipe. I also want that mount.

Idk what gearing requirements will be, but I assume it'll get easier overtime as we get better gear like previous extremes and savages therefore becoming more accessible to others who aren't as interested in the challenge. All Savage and Extreme content becomes accessible to casual players eventually via unsync.

According the the LL we got today Yoshi P said,

"We wanted to match Extreme difficulty at first... but I would say the mechanics themselves are like the first floor of savage, but when you consider doing it as 24 people, it might bump up to the level of a second savage floor"

I'm curious what Yoshi P means by the mechs themselves are like the first floor of Savage. Is it because they're harder to learn or because Chaotic Alliance mechs will be about as punishing as first floor savage mechs. If it's just a learning curve then I think the difficulty would be somewhere between mid and hardcore. To me midcore is stuff like Bozja/Eureka aka Field Operations, Extremes, and Unreals. Mistakes and dying are okay, recovery is easier compared to something like savage, and DPS checks are either non-existent or more lenient (esp this expac). If the DPS check for this Chaotic Alliance isn't like a Savage DPS check and the mechs aren't 1 or a few ppl do mech incorrectly therefore we wipe (RIP Thunder God), then I think this this would be accessible to those who are able to learn/clear Extremes. Then for hardcore/savage players that are coordinated and want more of a challenge/DPS check, they can probably que in as a group of 12 (since 12 is the min player requirement) while still having the difficultly that is adjusted for 24 players.

But we'll find out when it comes out! I really wish this wasn't releasing on Christmas Eve though cuz I won't be able to play it then ;_;