(genuinely. not sarcastically) Who is the 24 Man Savage For?

[IvoryHawk]

from how I understand it:
- Mechanically, you need at least 12 people to do something that resolves a mechanic
- Numerically, you need ~24 people to do enough damage to kill it

so you can go in, do the mechanics, learn, but you'll always reach enrage and die because you don't have enough damage

Not totally sure it'll be like this, DRS reduced amount of players needed but ofc you only need a set amount of people to complete "mechanics" anyway, at least how i read the cloud of darkness fight, it's most likely going to be clearable with 12, but what i don't get still is the first image we ever saw had 17 visible tower soaks, so i don't know if they'll end up reducing the singular mechanics to how many people are in the instance, guess we wont' know till it's out though

[Nezerius]

And I want it spoon-fed to me by an official posting. (Not word of mouth worked out cryptically from Lvl requirements. e.g. it drops 730 gear means nothing 'precise' to me, the level requirements means nothing to me)

You're unlikely to get any other info than what everyone else can access by simply checking the unofficial translation of the live letter, or waiting like 10-12 days for the official digest to get posted. But even the official digest might not have the 'precise' info you're looking for.

- What gear?
- Where do I get that gear from?
- How long (weeks) is it going to take me to get that gear? (I need to work out how many IRL disruptions can I have that mean I miss a week or part of a week)
Because if I'm too late back in to grind what ever normal raids are needed or whatever, then I'm going to (a) stop subbing all over again, and (b) be more 'unhappy' than ever.

Assuming you're talking about what gear we need to start progressing 24-man Savage, the simple answer is; we don't know. We only know that the fight has a iLvl sync of 735 (which doesn't mean that you need i735 for it, obviously).
We also know that this fight will release one week after patch 7.15, so roughly 9-10 weeks after the release of 7.1. Edit: Which is scheduled to release 7 weeks after 7.1

If you really want to map out some kind of non-savage gearing path, patch 7.1's Alliance raid will give you a token on your first weekly clear, which can be used to upgrade a piece of tomestone/Quetzalli gear to i730. 7 weeks of this would result in a nearly fully augmented set of Quetzalli gear, minus a weapon and a 2nd ring.

If the take is, "well googling it and researching it is part of the game", then that's fine, they don't make this game solely for me, but it 'wouldn't' be for me. I'm not even going to risk disappointment, and I'll just keep waiting for the next sure reason to re-sub.

I need enthusiasm to do that kind of research, and that has run out. I want the game to be massively successful. I think the Creative III team are good people and I think they are passionate (but I think they have resource issues around SQX). But I'm not doing any of the 'lifting' any more.
Make it easy for me.
Make it a sure thing.
I'm not a gambler.

You hardly need to do some kind of massive amount of researching for this info. The FFXIV reddit has a discord channel dedicated to unofficial translations of live letter. If that's too much 'lifting' for you, SE generally posts an official translation on the forums about 10-12 days after the live letter stream.

[Aexnidaral]

I really enjoy the idea behind Chaotic. I'm very much looking forward to it.

My only complaint is that it is truly insane that it comes out on Christmas eve, I have no idea who at SE thought that was a good idea but I hope they're not listened to again.

[Wolferey]

Not totally sure it'll be like this, DRS reduced amount of players needed but ofc you only need a set amount of people to complete "mechanics" anyway, at least how i read the cloud of darkness fight, it's most likely going to be clearable with 12, but what i don't get still is the first image we ever saw had 17 visible tower soaks, so i don't know if they'll end up reducing the singular mechanics to how many people are in the instance, guess we wont' know till it's out though

DRS has lost actions and insane buffs you can put on yourself for the dps checks though. Unless the chaotic alliance reduces the boss HP significantly to fit I don't see how 12 people can clear a 24 person dps check.

[Valence]

They already said higher than extreme but no more difficult than the 2nd raid savage out of the 4.

Which doesn't mean much because them saying that extremes are designed to be harder than the first 2 fights of savage tiers, then what? Extreme trials that can usually be cleared in one hour or two, are suddenly harder than P9S limit cut? The infamous P10S? Or like when they said nothing should be as hard or harder than DSR and that TOP would be easier for sure. See how that held up at release...

I do feel they're completely out of touch when it comes to gauging the difficulty of their own game.

[Teno]

Given what they said today, it'll likely be for everyone who has done an ex at least once.

I just hope replayability is good. Second floor savage difficulty makes it very accessible.

And I hope it's fun of course, this is one thing I'm looking forward to.

[Menriq]

From what I understood of it is that it will work like flex raiding in World of Warcraft. You need a minimum of 12 people and can have a max of 24, and the mechanics and damage will scale to how many people are present in the raid.

No, it's literally in the Live Letter (https://youtu.be/pp5OGIamHDU?t=5248) slide where it says it's set for 24 man. It does not scale.

[Gurgeh]

You dont need to overthink it too much tbh so the way the savages raid works (8 man) those are designed to be clear with a full crafted gear (ilvl 710) all the savages are designed like that ofc with better gear easier it gets. So if you already have like full tome gear then you good to go, 8 man savages wouldn't be clearable in week one if all the players needed higher item level (arcadion was cleared in 8 hours lol). Unless they make like a very very dumb decision like Criterion Savage that actually required you to be BiS I highly doubt you need like super pentamelded bis gear or whatever, if you have 710 gear then you should be able to go into this new chaotic difficulty easily

Thank you and I know this is meant to be helpful but me parts of the above mean nothing 'practical' to me.

Full crafted gear
- never has been an option to me. I don't know what its called, or how much it's costs. I just imagine its really expensive gear for die-hard day 0 world first raiders.
('None' of the people I have 'played' with have ever had it. I've been in communities with people who probably knew all about it and were using it, but they were off doing raiding stuff I didn't hear about. You never have to touch it in four years of catchup expansions. Its irrelevant. Then nothing in the game introduces it either. You certainly don't go to a vendor to buy it.)
- Is there one set per expansion or is it a new set every so-often patch? If there is just one set or does it upgrade like tome gear?
- Right now I have around 15,000,000 gil I think. And as I'm no longer subbed that won't really ever increase much now. So 3,000,000 is about as much as I'd pay for a full set. (How much is it roughly a full set and how long does it last? There is no point if its just one major patch kind of thing unless it can be upgraded)

"full tome gear"
I don't know what this means. To me it could mean one of four things.
- That gear you buy 'now' with currency that's unlimited (I don't mean poetics)
- That gear that you buy 'now' with the currency limited to 450 a week.
- New gear bought with a the next new unlimited currency
- New gear bought with the next 450 limited currency

8 man savages wouldn't be clearable in week one if all the players needed higher item level

I'm sure there is one, but I don't at all understand the point that is being made with this, and how this explains the gear that might be needed for 24 savage. I'm missing it. I'll only say I would not be able to clear an Extreeme with minIlvl gear. I'd be very hard work, and someone would have to carry me for the enrage that's for sure.

BiS I highly doubt you need like super pentamelded bis gear or whatever

OK this I get. So crafted gear not needed. Thats the only stuff you can penta. I'm pretty sure of that.

if you have 710 gear then you should be able to go

Super thank you. Although, I had to do more looking up that I would be prepared to do if it wasn't for the fact that I'm enjoying these forums.
That 710 gear will be no good for me in the future, because I won't be subbed and you can only get like one to two pieces per week.
If your coming in unsubbed you need ot be able to grind it out in a week of evenings, like you could for the 700 gear.
Again if your unsubbed forget the crafted gear you don't have the gil, and you won't be ready to craft it either.

At the same time minILvl gear is not goign to be an option. For the same reason, being unsubbed, I'll need to hit the content with my best job, thats PLD, and embarrassing myself by gong into something harder than Extreme with minIlvl as tank... I'd just feel guilty. I coudn't

-

Side issue but yeah, I hope this isn't a Discord jobby, because I'm not doing that.
Just can't be bothered unless its a small community.
I can also see discord communities being like "Yeah, tanks need to be 720/730. So that we can get in clear easy no wipes. Sorry" Fdat attitide. I play for the journey not the green tick or the mount.

I hope this isn't all because they think this is an acceptable low cost alternative for not doing a bozja. They've royally misjudged it if thats the case.
I caught up in time for beginning of EW. It was still 9 months before I did the first normal raid because... it just seemed like this bit of side content and i had other content to do.
The only reason I did delirium and stuff, was because 'Bozja' carried me through to it, and gave me a structure within a arc of a story to do it. It was needed to 'complete' the story.

Ozma mount is still the #1 mount I want, and even though I romped through Eureka, I haven't done it because I had to join a discord. I had to be 'prepared'? WTF is 'prepared'? What NPC tells me what I need? Why let me into it if you know I don't have what I need? (Yeah I can do something else.) And Now I've unsubbed I probably never will, as I don't have that drive to tick stuff off while chatting with friends (that I no longer have) anymore. It's a little game over that part of things. I'll do stuff here and there if it 'looks' exciting.
I won't be the only one like that.

[Stelle]

I really enjoy the idea behind Chaotic. I'm very much looking forward to it.

My only complaint is that it is truly insane that it comes out on Christmas eve, I have no idea who at SE thought that was a good idea but I hope they're not listened to again.

This. This type of content thrives on a lot of people trying it out at release, but getting a group together around Christmas and New Years is going to make getting a group together even more difficult. I'm worried that the timing of this will make it die out quicker esp since there's no time gating the rewards ;-;

[Gurgeh]

You're unlikely to get any other info than what everyone else can access by simply checking the unofficial translation of the live letter, or waiting like 10-12 days for the official digest to get posted. But even the official digest might not have the 'precise' info you're looking for.

Yeah and I think this is absolutely fine. I don't expect them to make the game just for me.
It's just not going to work for all us casual people who now maybe re-sub for a bit on a whim, and need to get caught up in a week to do the new content. Hardcore players probably do it all the time, but they are planning maybe two months worth of game play, they work it all out, do all the optimal stuff and get in and get out and pickup the next game. I was always casual, and I won't be doing that kind of prep before I jump in. It will "be oh that looks cool when is that? ok mid next month... I must remember to resub next month... sometime... mid-ish..."