Viper Suggestion - Give Reaving Fangs the Armor Crush treatment

[TheAmazing3]

Even though I would prefer they just revert the change, I could stomach your suggestion. It would've been at least a little closer to how it played before.

[Embio]

In my opinion, I think the biggest problem is that they aren't confident in Viper...

Good observations, and I'm inclined to agree with you. How quickly the changes were announced says everything to me. They weren't just responding to a week of feedback; they already had these changes in the works from the very start, and were just waiting for the word. There's no way they could come to the conclusion that changes needed to be made and come up with a brand new design when, realistically, there's a group of people that didn't play early access and only had the job for TWO days. CBU3 already had their finger on the trigger, and someone in the playerbase happened to sneeze. They need to trust in their design more; I know they're capable of making unique feeling jobs. The PVP rework showed that last expansion.

[GartredZW]

I can get behind that, but I'd honestly prefer if they gave it the old Huton treatment since that got removed from Ninja.
They could keep it exactly the same as it was, just as a personal buff rather than a debuff on the enemy. Use Dread fangs or Dreadwinder, and you get +20s on the timer with a max of 40s.
Hell, I was even saying that if running out of Noxious Gnash was an issue in burst windows, then they should actually just raise the cap to 60 seconds. Problem solved without heavily changing the class at it's core.

[sqoops]

i really like both of your ideas! i'm partial to a stacking buff because i love monk and ninja and having combo skills that need to be used in different ratios is one of my favorite parts of those jobs :P i think your suggestion of having what is essentially noxious gnash as a personal buff would probably be the most interesting to play and plan around, but i also love how viper's current design lets you save and spend vicewinder charges almost whenever you want to really optimize around short disconnects and hard to hit positionals and reintroducing noxious gnash-style buff management could really limit where vicewinder is viable to use. this mostly comes down to personal preference, but maybe the steel fangs buff could come exclusively from reaving fangs and vicewinder could stay as it is now?

[Metricasc]

Funnily enough almost all changes they make seem to be only done on paper, never playtested. MNK in particular "tried to keep its old playstyle" but differed so much at DT launch that it was a completely different job, requiring an entire update to fix it. PLD 6.3 was a straight downgrade is damage from PLD 6.28, despite it being called a "buff" several times. BLM is never at an appropriate damage level each expansion release, and PCT was/is so overtuned it's hilarious. Everything they do just points to having 0 idea about how it is in practice. The developers really do not seem to understand their own game, let alone its playerbase.

just want to point out for 6.3 PLD that the major buff really came to its mitigation kit and sustain more than its DPS output. tank DPS didn't really balance out till 6.4-6.5. they had under tuned the DPS in 6.3 only to bring it back in line (and allow for more flexibility around atonement afterwards) 6.4. this was still a better than just making band aid changes to a tank that was clearly underperforming in EW.

also worth pointing out that along with the removal of nash, they were also planning on removing positionals from Viper until there was enough pushback on SE to not do that. I think it remains a possibility something like nash return to Viper in 7.1 given that removing it made the class feel worse to play overall.

picto just needs a nerf, the 7.05 buffs to all classes helped a little bit, but PCT still largely shows as the best caster to bring in almost every situation imaginable.

[Carighan]

I feel Viper would feel a lot more "vipery" if it were entirely (no exceptions) based on debuffs, not buffs. I understand it could be a technical issue, but still, it'd feel so much nicer.

[Absurdity]

I feel Viper would feel a lot more "vipery" if it were entirely (no exceptions) based on debuffs, not buffs. I understand it could be a technical issue, but still, it'd feel so much nicer.

Both of them are technical issues, there is a hard cap on both buffs and debuffs, a hard cap that isn't even all that big. Remember people having their active cooldowns removed on certain TOP mechanics because they exceeded the buff cap?

The bigger issue with a debuff-heavy job is the UI.
You can't make your own debuffs bigger than other player's, or customize how they're displayed in general besides moving them around, so it becomes harder to track the more you have of them. Sure you could disable other people's debuffs entirely but that becomes an issue when you want to track things like Mug, Chain Stratagem, Reprisal, Addle, etc.

[SomeGuy22]

Hagakure was also removed and promptly brought back after the community outcry.

I want to believe, but after the dev answer to the whole Kaiten fiasco was "pls give it a chance" and then disappearing off the face of the earth, reverting job changes due to fan blowback seems like a thing of the past

[jonimated]

I want to believe, but after the dev answer to the whole Kaiten fiasco was "pls give it a chance" and then disappearing off the face of the earth, reverting job changes due to fan blowback seems like a thing of the past

Considering by Yoshi-P's own admission that the removal of Noxious Gnash was not due to any player feedback at all, I would say yeah. Making any job changes at all based on player feedback may be a thing of the past.

[Exinias]

Considering by Yoshi-P's own admission that the removal of Noxious Gnash was not due to any player feedback at all, I would say yeah. Making any job changes at all based on player feedback may be a thing of the past.

That's just a fancy way of gaslighting players.