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  1. #1
    Player
    Dikatis's Avatar
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    Lleu Macnia
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cleretic View Post
    he can absolutely overpower Old Sharlayan.
    Nope. Old Sharlayan is militarily a powerhouse despite abhorring war. They have by far the most powerful magicks and magic-powered technology of any activen nation in the setting and even the Garlean Empire loathes the idea of trying to invade it. Koana's reasoning for trying to rapidly industrialize Tuliyollal and the rest of Tural is to emulate Sharlayan's example and deter outside attackers. And they do have many active fighters and peacekeepers. Just see the Scions and people like Lalah Jinjahl.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aedwyn View Post
    The logistics are a huge stumbling block for his ambitions, to be sure. Tural is kind of just barely unified in the first place, as we see with the various factions we meet in DT that just plain don't like each other. Prior to DT it is a weak and largely artificial nation held together exclusively by Gulool Ja Ja's charisma and fame vs generations of traditional infighting.
    Not really. Alexandria only really got the leg up over Tuliyollal with its surprise attack and shock and awe tactics. Once Koana and Wuk Lamat organize a defense, the people of Tural hold their own against the otherwise technologically superior nation and only really need help dismantling Alexandria's air force.
    (3)

  2. #2
    Player
    Cleretic's Avatar
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    Ein Dose
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    Mateus
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    Alchemist Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Dikatis View Post
    Nope. Old Sharlayan is militarily a powerhouse despite abhorring war. They have by far the most powerful magicks and magic-powered technology of any activen nation in the setting and even the Garlean Empire loathes the idea of trying to invade it. Koana's reasoning for trying to rapidly industrialize Tuliyollal and the rest of Tural is to emulate Sharlayan's example and deter outside attackers. And they do have many active fighters and peacekeepers. Just see the Scions and people like Lalah Jinjahl.
    See, my thought is that the first place he walks into won't be expecting a fight right out the gate, so he's got the strength of basically sucker-punching the first place he aims at. Sharlayan could probably muster a terrifying defense if they need to (we've never seen them try but we'll give them that credit), but if they don't, then literally the only barrier to killing at least a few leaders is 'kind of a lot of stairs'. Limsa's a lot harder to attack, but if their guard is down then it's entirely possible he can kick off his assault with an attempted murder of the Admiral right on first meeting, and who the hell knows what becomes of Limsa if she dies.

    Both Sharlayan and Limsa are awful second targets because of the defenses they can rustle up when they need to, and frankly most nations in the game are also terrible first targets. But I genuinely just believe he could sucker-punch the most likely first targets.

    Quote Originally Posted by Iscah View Post
    Alternately his plan could have been to sail east from the western side of Tural – if you've got to build a port anyway, it can be put wherever it works best – and there might be a relatively clear path through the Azim Steppe and other sparsely populated areas. But I don't think we know a lot about exactly what is there.
    Going the other direction is an interesting question. Leaving aside Meracydia as a wildcard since we don't have an exact place for it, the first place he'd hit is probably Hingashi. Hingashi proper is gonna stop him right away; even we haven't met their leaders, there's no way in hell Zoraal Ja gets far enough in to take any serious territory or take down any major leaders, although I could definitely see him getting a few islands. He's unlikely to skip over Hingashi to get to Doma and the Azim Steppe, but he does have a better chance if he somehow does. If he hangs south he gets to Nagxia, which is hard to read; it's the only chance he's got to strike a mainland right off the bat, and it's probably roughly on Doma's level of 'puts up a good fight but is still a bit of a mess', but without knowing their leadership situation it's hard to say if Zoraal Ja's approach would get him anywhere meaningful, or just end him capturing a few seaside hamlets.

    Basically, hitting Othard probably gets him lesser immediate gains, but in a way that probably also makes him less enemies.
    (2)
    Last edited by Cleretic; 10-26-2024 at 12:29 PM.

  3. #3
    Player
    Dikatis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cleretic View Post
    See, my thought is that the first place he walks into won't be expecting a fight right out the gate, so he's got the strength of basically sucker-punching the first place he aims at.
    Sharlayan had systems in place to detect the destruction of Zodiark and the inevitable arrival of the Final Days. It'd be shocking if they didn't have an anti-invasion mreasures given that the whole reason for the exodus was a lack of defenses in the Dravanian Hinterlands. Garlemald was wary of trying to invade Sharlayan despite the technological resources it'd have to gain from subjugating it. I fully expect a contingent of Sharlayan archmages to blast most of the Garlean air fleet out of the sky with Comet if they ever tried.
    (1)

  4. #4
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    Waffleiron70's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dikatis View Post
    Sharlayan had systems in place to detect the destruction of Zodiark and the inevitable arrival of the Final Days. It'd be shocking if they didn't have an anti-invasion mreasures given that the whole reason for the exodus was a lack of defenses in the Dravanian Hinterlands. Garlemald was wary of trying to invade Sharlayan despite the technological resources it'd have to gain from subjugating it. I fully expect a contingent of Sharlayan archmages to blast most of the Garlean air fleet out of the sky with Comet if they ever tried.
    Given what we've learned of Sharlayan, I have no doubt that they have detailed procedures and plans to detect and respond to a potential invasion. But I also imagine that their response plans are basically a very sophisticated form of "run away." After all, "stand and fight" over a piece of ground is antithetical both to their historical identity as neutral preservers of knowledge, and to their assumed mission of ensuring mankind's survival through the Final Days.
    (6)

  5. #5
    Player
    Dikatis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Waffleiron70 View Post
    Given what we've learned of Sharlayan, I have no doubt that they have detailed procedures and plans to detect and respond to a potential invasion. But I also imagine that their response plans are basically a very sophisticated form of "run away." After all, "stand and fight" over a piece of ground is antithetical both to their historical identity as neutral preservers of knowledge, and to their assumed mission of ensuring mankind's survival through the Final Days.
    Where would they run to in the event of an invasion? All of their important tech is there, including the means for an exodus to the moon that took two centuries to create. They have to either defend their work or abandon it and risk dooming all of mankind. Even with their anti-violence stance, I don't think the Forum could stomach that.

    Sharlayan's anti-interventionist stance also loosened dramatically post-Final Days and it has the Eorzean Alliance on speed dial. I really, really doubt that Old Sharlayan could fall to Alexandria.
    (1)

  6. #6
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    Cleretic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dikatis View Post
    Sharlayan had systems in place to detect the destruction of Zodiark and the inevitable arrival of the Final Days. It'd be shocking if they didn't have an anti-invasion mreasures given that the whole reason for the exodus was a lack of defenses in the Dravanian Hinterlands. Garlemald was wary of trying to invade Sharlayan despite the technological resources it'd have to gain from subjugating it. I fully expect a contingent of Sharlayan archmages to blast most of the Garlean air fleet out of the sky with Comet if they ever tried.
    Garlemald was a very known foe, though, that attacked in very known ways that they could see coming. Like, I assume they had a dedicated 'Garlean Watcher' shift whose entire job was to watch for big airships coming over the horizon.

    What Zoraal Ja isn't is 'Garlean'; he probably has the element of surprise just because they won't see a bunch of Turalians coming for blood. Hell, I could make a genuine case that a pre-Alexandrian Zoraal Ja handles this better than a post-Alexandrian one; Sharlayan's probably a lot better at looking out for and countering airships.
    (2)