Wow, Wuk Lamat is really single-handedly ruining the DT story...

[Daralii]

I don't remember where I heard this, but is the main writer of Dawntrail the same one who did the Werlyt storyline?
Because that's a fact I just can't buy going from one story to the other.

Here are his credits as per SE:

[CuteBucket]

I don't remember where I heard this, but is the main writer of Dawntrail the same one who did the Werlyt storyline?
Because that's a fact I just can't buy going from one story to the other.

There are three writers credited for Dawntrail main story: Daichi Hiroi (pictured in the post above mine with some of his writing credits), Tomohiro Kawasaki (who wrote the Four Lords and Werlyt Trial series), and Megumi Onozuka (who wrote the Pixie and Dwarf quests in Shadowbringers along with some other random side quests in Endwalker).

[Dikatis]

That aside, I think Zenos would've ignored Wuk Lamat in SB, or gave her the 'speech' that he gave to uh.. Jullus was it? if it's in EW. Which would've fried her last functioning braincell. She can't comprehend anything but peace and happiness and food existing.

So... are we going to ignore that she marched straight into Alexandria fully intent on avenging Tuliyollal and Gulool Ja Ja by murdering Zoraal Ja? And that no amount of reasoning, not even the existence of Zoraal Ja's son, could sway her from this? And that her last moments with Zoraal Ja were spent angrily dismissing his self-pity when he had so much to live for? Or that she brought the axe down on Sphene, who she wanted to befriend, without hesitation when it became clear that there was no changing Sphene's mind about continuing her invasion of Tuliyollal? That Wuk Lamat?

Sure, she'd try talking to Zenos but she'd then try to take his head when it became clear that he has no interest in anything but war after the first two minutes. There's plenty to criticize about Wuk Lamat but characterizing her as someone who can understand nothing but love and peace feels weird when Dawntrail's third act is all about her revenge plot and intentionally messing with his head by refusing to meet him immediately while also buying Koana time to organize Tural's defenses for the inevitable second assault.

[Rueby]

Snip

Well, when I wrote that I hadn't reached that point of the story. If you saw, my last post prior to the one you responded to ended at the bomb train

I don't want to think about the Mary Sue furry OC of the writer anywhere near Zenos let alone 'taking his head'...Anyway, I do believe her writing is very shallow now that I finished the MSQ. I hope I never see her again...

==========================================

I finished the MSQ and honestly, she ruined the last trial. I was zoned out the moment she appeared. Thancred and Zenos did it better....

Maybe I'll write my thoughts about it but I honestly feel...disappointed? Kinda empty too...

I feel like we got the 'Remember us... Remember that we once lived...' - The expansion ending, why am I getting rehashed Amaurot and rehashed Emet-Selch/Meteion/E12? Why is the last boss a vacuum cleaner? I have alot of things to say but I'm...too exhausted to say them...even remembering them feels...tiring.

The last zone made me cry, but not for the right reasons, I found myself angry/frustrated by how cheery and willing to accept everything everyone was. It felt...like it minimizes grief simply because this is a simulation. They had an interesting topic/material but I feel like they squandered it. I really liked the regulators, the idea of soul extraction being revisited- being something that was researched by Zenos was exciting to me...I wanted to know more, but I kept getting the whole 'omg so immoral :CC' (I unironically think it has alot of cool RP potential tho I don't RP)

The only positive things I'll praise them for are NPC placements/emotes, I know 3 NPCs at the beginning of the amusement park area made me cry for a few hours. It hurts but not in a good way.
I love Erenville tho I'm not sure how to digest the 180 he did at the end, but I'd be happy to have him around...he out of everyone felt at least human. I'd love to go on an adventure with him.



This hit abit close to home...
And also I guess the way Erenville was always placed closer to the dome when we were making the bomb train (yay), and later on his head tracking was always fixed on his mother....I appreciated that small detail.

[Rueby]

personally i always say that zenos is like the joker in nolan's dark knight, he is just here to bring chaos and that's it, to me if you like that joker and not zenos, you seriously didn't understand the character. not every villain need a great scheme. at least zenos made us feel vulnerable and was a real threat in SB (litterally kicked WoL a*s twice, we can even add yugiri the second time and sliced y'shtola), all of this by being "just a human" at that time.

I mean he did say it right in EW, he's our mirror. I liked him for his simplicity.

Why do you think it would be unpopular. I think there will only me a small subsection who incapable of separate fiction and reality, like how they believe no one has any business liking or simping Emet Setch because it "romanticize genocide".

Game is entertainment, and entertainment is to entertain. It's not rare for people - if given a choice between a cool villain and a boring heroes, most will prefer the former.

Because sadly from my personal experience in-game, I met alot of people who hate Zenos. My first 'friend circle' was so allergic to him they felt entitled to attack me as a person for my morality for being excited to see a "objectively badly written character" and to spoil the ending of SB for me when I was still in HW. I know he's a divisive character, I find that interesting about him, but from my experience I feel like loving him is an unpopular opinion and he constantly gets compared to Emet-Selch.

I kinda felt that maybe the story means alot to people that they feel strongly about such characters to be quite interesting but I'll forever be salty that people attacked me for looking forward to him and stripped me from the one thing I looked forward to....I just thought everyone hated him because that's what I personally experienced and saw, that people just want him to stay dead because it's a relief, he's that character you hate on I guess.

[Coratanni]

I mean he did say it right in EW, he's our mirror. I liked him for his simplicity.



Because sadly from my personal experience in-game, I met alot of people who hate Zenos. My first 'friend circle' was so allergic to him they felt entitled to attack me as a person for my morality for being excited to see a "objectively badly written character" and to spoil the ending of SB for me when I was still in HW. I know he's a divisive character, I find that interesting about him, but from my experience I feel like loving him is an unpopular opinion and he constantly gets compared to Emet-Selch.

I kinda felt that maybe the story means alot to people that they feel strongly about such characters to be quite interesting but I'll forever be salty that people attacked me for looking forward to him and stripped me from the one thing I looked forward to....I just thought everyone hated him because that's what I personally experienced and saw, that people just want him to stay dead because it's a relief, he's that character you hate on I guess.

Zenos never bothered me like that. He made for an interesting reflection on the Warrior of Light. I was sad when he died to be honest. Would have been a nice redemption arc for him had he lived after our duel.

[Raven2014]

I kinda felt that maybe the story means alot to people that they feel strongly about such characters to be quite interesting but I'll forever be salty that people attacked me for looking forward to him and stripped me from the one thing I looked forward to....I just thought everyone hated him because that's what I personally experienced and saw, that people just want him to stay dead because it's a relief, he's that character you hate on I guess.

Here is my advise: any time you see someone who can't differentiate between real and fiction, just turn and never look back.

[Carin-Eri]

Because sadly from my personal experience in-game, I met alot of people who hate Zenos. My first 'friend circle' was so allergic to him they felt entitled to attack me as a person for my morality for being excited to see a "objectively badly written character" and to spoil the ending of SB for me when I was still in HW. I know he's a divisive character, I find that interesting about him, but from my experience I feel like loving him is an unpopular opinion and he constantly gets compared to Emet-Selch.

I kinda felt that maybe the story means alot to people that they feel strongly about such characters to be quite interesting but I'll forever be salty that people attacked me for looking forward to him and stripped me from the one thing I looked forward to....I just thought everyone hated him because that's what I personally experienced and saw, that people just want him to stay dead because it's a relief, he's that character you hate on I guess.

I've found this a few times and, in my opinion, it all comes down to one thing: Zenos beat the Warrior of Light in battle. It seems that, to some players, that is absolutely unforgivable. I actually really didn't like him at first either. I mean, he committed the cardinal sin of defeating the Warrior of Light in a one-on-one fight! I remember thinking "how the hell..." when that happened. We'd fought, and beaten Primals and Dragons by that point.

It wasn't until later in the story I realised that said loss was a wake-up call that we needed. All those victories - all the praise - the fact that the Warrior of Light had pretty much become a 'trump card' to point at the biggest problems. And then we finally meet a challenge that we couldn't overpower. A challenge that didn't have Primal powers or the Echo but kicked the Warrior of Light's ass anyway, easily, and walked off as if it were not worth a second thought. I've since always felt that this was character development that both Zenos AND our character needed, particularly in terms of demonstrating to the Alliance/the Scions that pointing the WoL at the Big Bad may not be the answer to everything.

This meant that I, personally, enjoyed his endgame and character development in Endwalker. I mean, its difficult to ignore the fact that, regardless of why he did it, he acknowledged that the WoL was too busy engaging in heroics to fight him and later on, once he was done assisting us against Endsinger, he waited patiently for us to finish talking with Meteion before addressing us and offered to let us walk away if we wanted to. And whilst it was, unfortunately, not an option anyway (which was a little irritating) I actually think that he probably would’ve let us go.

What we saw was that Zenos had learned, in his own unique way, what it means to care for someone. His former demands of “I WILL have my contest!") changed to sincerely offering the WoL to share in the only form of happiness he understood. And he was finally able to see WoL as their own person. The way he referred to the WoL as “Adventurer” demonstrated that he understood there is a part of WoL that's difficult for them to express in the midst of all the heroics that were, more often than not, forced upon them. And we directly, and indirectly, gave him a purpose to live. It's what makes him an intriguing character.

[Rin_Sato]

Zenos never bothered me like that. He made for an interesting reflection on the Warrior of Light. I was sad when he died to be honest. Would have been a nice redemption arc for him had he lived after our duel.

I was happy then because it meant the writers couldn't butcher his character. Now I am extra happy.

[Ghost_of_Ebina]

Between Wuk Lamat I see some parallels with Ysayle. Both were idealists who believed strongly in fighting for their own people.
What HW did very well is how Hreasvelgr totally shredded Ysayle's imagined utopian vision of how Dragons and People can live together.
That scene where he told her how stupid she was... it was shiver-inducing; it was both terrible and wonderful to watch.

Wuk Lamat should have had some similar type of awakening where her "childish idealism" is crushed / pulverized into smithereens... and then through some incredibly arduous transformation she can be redeemed or something (like, going off screen for a while)
The way how her untested idealism goes unchallenged really weakened her impact as a character -- also leading to very little character development.