Wow, Wuk Lamat is really single-handedly ruining the DT story...

[Allegor]

This is what baffles me the most about DT's defenders. DT needs the audience to have poor literacy for the story even to work. The moment you pull at a single thread, the whole thing unravels. It's bizarre that actual critiques of the story, of which there are an endless amount, get accused of being a product of "low attention span" as if the writing doesn't beat you over the head with the same point again and again juuust in case you forgot anything from two lines earlier.

The writers seemed to assume we're all stupid and would either not notice or intentionally ignore blatant plot holes, poor dialogue, and zero solid character arcs. There were so many points I felt outright scorn from this team - I looked at my partner at one point and was like, "Do they hate us for playing this game?"

I'll take a pick from the jar:

Zoraal ja spent 30 years preparing to invade Tuliyollal and he was still beaten by his old, officially retired, literally half dead father.

[EchoingPulse]

Honestly, I think a lot of the defense (and some of the hatred) of DT is ideological, which is why so many of the arguments are nonsensical or pure deflection tactics. "Group X (dis)likes this game because they're on the wrong team so I have to defend/attack it!"

The game also has a lot of weird toxic positivity where people get very upset if you criticize the game at all so they'll just defend it reflexively.

But, for some reason, there are people who genuinely like the story. There's someone on my friend list who reads fantasy fiction voraciously and thinks Dawntrail is the best expansion by far. You can't account for taste I suppose.

Unfortunately, that first reason is the most potent and accurate.
I wouldn't say I like it for XYZ reason. I must be on the wrong side of the lake and hate the golden child Wuk because of it.

[Palladiamors]

I'll take a pick from the jar:

Zoraal ja spent 30 years preparing to invade Tuliyollal and he was still beaten by his old, officially retired, literally half dead father.

And in that same vein, we have become death, destroyer of worlds, having fought the strongest goes in the universe, and said retiree fought us to a standstill.

[fulminating]

Didn’t the pensioner give up after a bit when fighting the player? I never got the impression he had the upper hand, even without forgetting his brother was dead. Which does make it kind of weird that we weren’t asked to kick the poo out of zoraal ja at any point during the rite. One of the bigger motivators for visiting tural was the threat of invasion if he became king. We could have been stormblood zenos to someone.

Speaking of stormblood, didn’t the resonant chair require a lot of human sacrifice/souls/whatever similar to the everkeep boss fight thing?

Also pretty weird zoraal get to use a dftc in the 93 dungeon before he’s threatening

[ovIm]

We could have been stormblood zenos to someone.

We were kinda that for Grynewaht back in Stormblood. (which, imho, was still a super tragic story. Because it was being played for laughs it did not hit quite as well as it could have.)

But generally, yeah, it would be nice to have someone wanting to reach us in terms of combat prowess, since the WoL is literally the biggest top dog there is.

[Carin-Eri]

We were kinda that for Grynewaht back in Stormblood. (which, imho, was still a super tragic story. Because it was being played for laughs it did not hit quite as well as it could have.)

But generally, yeah, it would be nice to have someone wanting to reach us in terms of combat prowess, since the WoL is literally the biggest top dog there is.

That's not exactly true. No-one in Tural knew who we were and I don't recall us being referred to as "Warrior of Light" even once. I think it's fair to say that we're only "top dog" when we've done something to demonstrates that.

And what's worse is that even now that 'we' are somewhat known in the region the NPC dialogue subsequent to the 'ending' indicates that we're viewed as someone who travelled/fought alongside Wuk Lamat rather than being someone who is an impressive combatant in their own right.
Although I will note that it feels as if the Arcadion raid series might address this to some degree.

[ovIm]

That's not exactly true. No-one in Tural knew who we were and I don't recall us being referred to as "Warrior of Light" even once. I think it's fair to say that we're only "top dog" when we've done something to demonstrates that.

Just to be clear - i never said this had to happen in Tural. I merely suggest that it would be nice if that were to happen at some place and at some time

Generally, yes, we were rather incognito in Tural, that I understand fully. Still would have been nice if there were people that actually knew at least rumors about the WoL from Eorzea.

[Carin-Eri]

Just to be clear - i never said this had to happen in Tural. I merely suggest that it would be nice if that were to happen at some place and at some time

Generally, yes, we were rather incognito in Tural, that I understand fully. Still would have been nice if there were people that actually knew at least rumors about the WoL from Eorzea.

Agreed - and apologies - misconstrued what you were saying!

Honestly? That's another issue I take with the story. I really don't think the WoL should've been quite as anonymous as they were.

I mean, it'd be a stretch that anyone would recognize the WoL by sight, but still - there wasn't even so much as a hint that anyone was really aware of what occurred in Eoreza.

[lolnotacat]

Agreed - and apologies - misconstrued what you were saying!

Honestly? That's another issue I take with the story. I really don't think the WoL should've been quite as anonymous as they were.

I mean, it'd be a stretch that anyone would recognize the WoL by sight, but still - there wasn't even so much as a hint that anyone was really aware of what occurred in Eoreza.

Gonna copypaste something I posted elsewhere that I think fits the conversation. If Koana and Gulool Ja Ja knew who the WoL was, and at least some of our feats, then it could've been integrated into the story. It doesn't make sense for some rando in Texas to know who we are, but the dude who's always in Sharlayan and the guy in charge of a continent-spanning country (along with his militaristic child)? Hell yeah it makes sense.

....Some key characters (Gulool Ja Ja, Koana, etc...) could've acknowledged the WoL's place in stopping the Final Days (probably should be called something else in Tulilloyal) but pretty much nobody else would've had knowledge of who we are. Instead, people turning into monsters and going on a rampage aren't acknowledged at all, which just felt cheap and lazy.

[fulminating]

That's not exactly true. No-one in Tural knew who we were and I don't recall us being referred to as "Warrior of Light" even once. I think it's fair to say that we're only "top dog" when we've done something to demonstrates that.

I remember bakool jaja at the very least and I think zoraal ja specifically mentioning they didn't want to engage in combat with "wuk lamat's mercenary". I'm not quite sure if this is wuk's combat capabilities being considered abysmal or if our anonymous reputation has preceded us. Somehow.