Wow, Wuk Lamat is really single-handedly ruining the DT story...

[Unyqua]

I'm just gonna interject with something I posted elsewhere that's apropos to the conversation.

Yep, this is what i also think. There are so many technical issues with the story... plot holes, pacing, deus ex machinas and so on. everything bends over backwards just to service the plot the writer wanted to tell. the orange cat is just one of many issues.

[honest_psycho]

To answer unanswered question: The source of the problem is that the writers are absolute talentless amateurs and need to be replaced asap.

Every other question has been done and debated ad nauseam.
Everyone who thinks "Dawntrail and Wuk Lamat is the bestest thing EVARRR" is huffing lethal amounts of copium because they don't wanna admit that their favourite game/second home etc shat their pants.

And now these people pretend that their A-student just "accidentaly" sat on "chocolate cake", despite proof that there was no cake at the school-cafeteria on that day and that EVERYONE CAN SMELL IT.

If you just gobble up this mess of a product, don't be suprised when this game goes down in flames in a few years, which WILL happen with the current writers.
Mark my words.

[Carin-Eri]

To answer unanswered question: The source of the problem is that the writers are absolute talentless amateurs and need to be replaced asap.

Every other question has been done and debated ad nauseam.
Everyone who thinks "Dawntrail and Wuk Lamat is the bestest thing EVARRR" is huffing lethal amounts of copium because they don't wanna admit that their favourite game/second home etc shat their pants.

And now these people pretend that their A-student just "accidentaly" sat on "chocolate cake", despite proof that there was no cake at the school-cafeteria on that day and that EVERYONE CAN SMELL IT.

If you just gobble up this mess of a product, don't be suprised when this game goes down in flames in a few years, which WILL happen with the current writers.
Mark my words.

I feel I have to add that there IS a middle-ground though.

I quite liked Dawntrail for the most part. It wasn't my favorite, I'll agree that the writing was pretty weak in comparison to previous expansions and it had plenty of flaws and moments which irked me (and I particularly hate that Wuk Lamat interfered with the fight Vs Queen Eternal).

And it didn't have any real 'stand out' moment for me either. I mean:
ARR had the 'Bloody Banquet',
Heavensward had 'Final Steps of Faith',
Stormblood had 'A Requiem for Heroes'
Shadowbringers.... well, "This is our Future. Our Story" is one of the the most epic moments of any of the expansions
Endwalker actually had a few for me, although 'The Walk' (Ultima Thule) and Zenos coming to our aid immediately spring to mind

But I don't feel that Dawntrail had a standout moment like those. I might have said that Vrtra's surprise appearance in 'The Protector and the Destroyer' was close had it not leaned so heavily on Endwalker themes.

Eitherway - I can't say that it's the worst MMO story I've encountered by any means.

[Hallarem]

The main problem isnt Wuk Lamat. Its the writers and their lack of delivery. This shines in the characters not living up to expectations, the pacing being bad, the music direction being borderline on drugs at phases and the English voice direction / performance lacking.
I join in the opinion of "if you give them leeway of anykind with this, they will use it and we get a similar hodgepodge of mediocrity and at worst crap because you gave them permission by not saying anything."
So make it known, I think the story is garbage and the game needs to evolve from this archaic formula its been pumping out patch after patch. I would shut up, but I still have enough goodwill to stick around instead of unsubbing.
We got patches until 8.0, but if theres no response to all this? No proper QoL? No mention of making the gameplay better? Ill be gone by 8.0

[Voidmage]

The most hypocritical part of it for me is that almost everything Wuk Lamat is hated for, the WOL also does at some point.

The difference here is that the WoL is the PLAYER CHARACTER.

As an NPC they would also be hated.
Wuk Lamat is a talking NPC that takes the spot of a silent stand in for the player, the exact same spot.
Be it bonding with NPC‘s, overcoming the odds or be in the middle of the action.
She comes in and pushes the player character out without leaving them anything.

Wuk Lamats problem is that she is written as the MC player character in a game that already has that character for many years now.

What annoys people is that their character is left with absolutely nothing. No role, no agenda, no reason.
DT is a Wuk Lamat show in an MMORPG sidelining the player character.

You can like that and be happy with that, all fine.
But don’t act like those of us who actually care about our characters and are miffed about that change in direction are in the wrong for that.

[Daralii]

Shadowbringers.... well, "This is our Future. Our Story" is one of the the most epic moments of any of the expansions

I'd also add Tesleen's transformation, the gunshot, and pretty much the entirety of 5.3. HW is still my favorite overall, but ShB had some great highlights.

[StormChase]

To answer unanswered question: The source of the problem is that the writers are absolute talentless amateurs and need to be replaced asap.

Every other question has been done and debated ad nauseam.
Everyone who thinks "Dawntrail and Wuk Lamat is the bestest thing EVARRR" is huffing lethal amounts of copium because they don't wanna admit that their favourite game/second home etc shat their pants.

And now these people pretend that their A-student just "accidentaly" sat on "chocolate cake", despite proof that there was no cake at the school-cafeteria on that day and that EVERYONE CAN SMELL IT.

If you just gobble up this mess of a product, don't be suprised when this game goes down in flames in a few years, which WILL happen with the current writers.
Mark my words.

Give Yoshi-P a call and read out everything you just said. I'm sure he'll love your feedback.

[BabyYoda]

but WhY¿‽¿
wUk lAmAt iS fInE¡¡

[Aniise]

Give Yoshi-P a call and read out everything you just said. I'm sure he'll love your feedback.

Well, feedback isn't necessarily supposed to be pleasant.
First and foremost, it's supposed to show creators what people loved and hated about a product they made. Especially then when it's a product the customer paid for.
Feedback doesn't have to be sugarcoated. And the one who gets it isn't supposed to 'love it' either. The only thing important is, that they use it to better the product they made.

[ZXN]

To answer unanswered question: The source of the problem is that the writers are absolute talentless amateurs and need to be replaced asap.

Exactly this. Hiroi is a talentless hack, genuinely one of the worst writers I've ever seen. Everything he touches turns to slop. If they don't swap out the writing team soon...I don't even want to think about it actually lol, the patches and DT were painful enough. The thought of the writing quality staying this poor is depressing.

I'll bite the bullet here and take the potential lashing: I don't think Hiroi and the other new writers are exactly "terrible". While some are new, like the people who did the Myths of the Realm alliance raid story, some have written the smaller side stuff like the Job/Role Quests and some other side quest things. Hiroi for example did the Pandaemonium series and also worked on the Return to Ivalice story and Bozja's story, and I believe also lead 6.1 and 6.2 at the very least for Endwalker's post-patch MSQ.

HOWEVER!...They currently are not MSQ quality writers.

Going from writing non-mandatory side stories/smaller-ish content to writing a story that has to carry a whole expansion/post expansion while also building up something for the future of the whole game is a BIG jump from what they are no doubt use to.

It seems pretty clear based on what has been written in the past by Hiroi and the new writers that the potential IS there. The problem is that he and the other new writing team just isn't ready yet to carry a whole expansion with their writing quality, and it shows given how massively split the Endwalker Post-Patch MSQ and Dawntrail's current MSQ have made players. Yes, Hiroi and the other new writers are only really going to learn through actual experience and trying things out along the way given the story is pretty much a blank slate with small things leftover, but if Yoshi-P, Ishiwaka, and Oda wanted to keep their "We'll just take a backseat and let Hiroi and the new writers do their own thing" approach going forward, then they need to immediately throw that mindset in the dumpster and oversee Hiroi and the new writers more carefully until they can get their footing with what they're putting out.