Wow, Wuk Lamat is really single-handedly ruining the DT story...

[Rueby]

I'm not saying there aren't. There definitely are. I'm saying you're looking at the wrong thing as the source of the problems.

And it doesn't matter if it's 99% or 75% or whatever. Either you think she's the main source or you don't. So which is it?

I'd rather collect shit with Erenville than spend a second around Wuk Lamat and I actually hate that god damn disgusting trope with burning passion.
Personally I felt like I could finally breathe when I got to Shaaloani. I think Wuk Lamat as a character and the whole rite of succession is total meaningless garbage. I would've rather had a competent guide to actually show me around rather than babysit an actual middleschool goof ball who is 'learning about her people' and all her personality revolves around 'peace, hungry, I'm gonna throw up oh nyooo'.

Everyone is bending over for her even the scions and even the WoL. Sorry, but I don't want to be a decoration in Wuk Lamat's story. It's not even a compelling story. It's a tedious and boring one where she gets to harp about peace and happiness and I get to hold her things for her.

I'm not sure what your end goal here is, are you trying to have a 'gotcha' moment on someone? If Wuk Lamat gets removed from the story the rite of succession goes with her, and if not then we might help Koana who honestly feels alot more 'human' than Wuk Lamat who feels like an exaggerated trope.

[StormChase]

I'd rather collect shit with Erenville than spend a second around Wuk Lamat and I actually hate that god damn disgusting trope with burning passion.
Personally I felt like I could finally breathe when I got to Shaaloani. I think Wuk Lamat as a character and the whole rite of succession is total meaningless garbage. I would've rather had a competent guide to actually show me around rather than babysit an actual middleschool goof ball who is 'learning about her people' and all her personality revolves around 'peace, hungry, I'm gonna throw up oh nyooo'.

Everyone is bending over for her even the scions and even the WoL. Sorry, but I don't want to be a decoration in Wuk Lamat's story. It's not even a compelling story. It's a tedious and boring one where she gets to harp about peace and happiness and I get to hold her things for her.

I'm not sure what your end goal here is, are you trying to have a 'gotcha' moment on someone? If Wuk Lamat gets removed from the story the rite of succession goes with her, and if not then we might help Koana who honestly feels alot more 'human' than Wuk Lamat who feels like an exaggerated trope.

So you would say she forces you to pay attention to her?

[Kuroka]

Pretty much this. Wuk Lamat being a Mary Sue is a symptom of bad writing, not a cause. She had nothing to do with:

1. the hanuhanu not knowing their own cultural rites despite practicing it yearly
2. the pelupelu rite happening offscreen while we just chill out camping
3. moblins not knowing basic commodities and hygiene
4. Thancred and Urianger appearing as rivals and then...nothing. Back to being allies over and over
5. letting Wuk Lamat go back to town alone, surely nothing bad could happen
6. Valigarmanda being a glorified hunt target (narratively, not the fight itself)
7. Gulool ja ja neglecting Mamook for 80 years despite being a blessed sibling himself
8. Bakool ja ja commiting several acts ranging from cheating to what would be considered a war crime with zero accountability
9. cooking competition as if nothing happened (does Gulool even know what Bakool did???)
10. cooking competition basically contradicting what was previously established with how the rite of succession works
11. Bakool ja ja (again) having an unearned rushed redemption after we learn his tragic backstoryTM
12. Zoraal ja's daddy issues and extreme golden child syndrome thrown in last second to make him less a plot device and more a character for more tragic backstoryTM brownie points
13. Zoraal ja being a "we have Zenos at home"
14. Ketamine pulling an Y'shtola fakeout death on us
15. the WoL and Erenville forgetting what linkpearls are as they watch an alien spaceship very slowly fly toward Tuliyolall
16. the whole gang watching Zoraal ja's evil monologue as he unalives his dad and walk away scotch free
17. playing Smile as we build a bomb. (but we're building it with the power of friendship so it counts...I guess?)
18. the army Zoraal ja spent 30 years building decimated by cowboys with rubber bullets and Dragon ex machina (this one was cool tho)
19. that f***ing baby
20. Krile getting 5% screentime, when the whole B plot is indirectly about her
21. that f***ing baby stealing what little spotlight Krile had
22. the Scions basically just existing as trust companions, pretend they're not even there
23. the entirety of Living Memory

1. This wouldve been an easy fix, having them fool us and throwing some "we didnt tell the younger ones as we knew 3 years in advance and you had to figure it out" line, its just sad.
2. Solo duty with their beloved Wuk?? Battle against the others that wanted to sabotage her?
3. Sure cause they only work with humans since 80sh years lol Same as #1
4. Thancred and Urianger shouldve been the middle boss during the dungeon. you know, that dungeon we do only for taking just as long as Ehrenvile took to fix our ship >_>
5. Wuk gettin kidnapped, us not reaching her faster... ffs just poison our dinner and have her taken in the morning...
6. Valigarmanda IS the same as their hunts, just the most powerfull one (so far) and was starved for 80ish years, it wasnt pretty but ill give them a pass - though there were 0 consequences...
7. Gulool ja ja neglecting Mamook was an insult, especially with all his "love and family and unity" stuff, true...
8. Bakool ja ja's crimes were just too much, should never been accepted into the rite...
9. cooking competition was also cheap, we get Koana so the least possible tension...
10. at that point ive almost forgotten the rite lol But there at least they were prepared to make it hard and didnt "just forget" their favorite food lol
11. I can live with his redemption, but it was way too sudden, again, lazy writing...
12. Zoraal ja's daddy issues were so out of the blue, he was praised, everyone loves him, looks up, hes his general. Almost equal in strength... and dont tell me he wasnt loved lol If he were weak, ok, but come on...
13. Yeah he went from "People shall know PAIN!" to "lets feed on EVERYONES SOUL" pretty fast. remember he had 30 years... but still was a edgy child with daddy issues...
14. To me no one is dead until i see an corpse lol
15. the whole attack was a joke. They did better on Rhalgas Reach when Zenos hit it...
16. yeah at least let him create a barrier or have someone take Wuk/koana as hostage, have him win but then almost beaten by us. so he leaves angrily...
17. Smile was so...wrong, its not even a bad song but yeah...
18. Dragon ex machina is epic xD But yeah, 30 YEARS with nearly infinite machines and all... I get it, they needed souls so just nuking us was out of question lol
19. that f***ing baby ...we have still 0 clue? Mother? Clone? do they.. just lay eggs?
20. Krile just hurt... it was HER part and we spent... 5 min? Sure some "no we cant do this, my parents!!" stuff would be unfitting for her but still...
21. Yeah the very few times others had their moments, they got taken...
22. Estinien was the worst... like the twins shouldve stayed for a while with the King - you know to learn what they came for lol
23. the Memory... idk, kinda weird, felt like its against everything we learned...

And it feels like we just wasted 1/4th of the whole planet for this...

[CuteBucket]

Wuk Lamat isn't the only problem with Dawntrail. I think any reasonable person can agree on that. But she is the most obvious and noticeable problem with the story, and so that is why she draws so much ire. She takes up FAR more screen time and has more than twice the number of words spoken in lines than the next wordiest character (who happens to be Sphene, another wretched character who I grew to hate the longer she was on screen).

She is all encompassing and inescapable. This whole setting and story is riddled with stupid moments and bizarre writing choices, but when there's one character front and center for all of it, is it any wonder that she is so despised?

And yes, I also see Wuk Lamat's character as a victim of bad writing, not as an inherently bad character concept. She did not need to be this way. I never had the problems with Lyse some people had and thought she got way more flack than necessary (and yeah, some of it just smelled like sexism). I'm sure Wuk Lamat would always have some detractors in a theoretical "better Dawntrail" timeline, just for being a prominent female character with spunky anime protag energy, but nothing like this. I always stress in threads and topics like this that I liked Wuk Lamat when she was first introduced. Hell, I was even pretty patient with the story through the whole first half, even the stupid moments, because I thought it was building toward something bigger and none of these weird little issues would matter all that much in the long run. But by the time I got to Heritage Found and met Sphene, I realized this was it, this was just Wuk Lamat's Magic Friendship Adventures, and it would never be anything else.

[lolnotacat]

I'm just gonna interject with something I posted elsewhere that's apropos to the conversation.

I hate Wuk Lamat. There's nothing redeeming about her, but she's not the problem. She's a symptom of the problem; bad writing. It's not Wuk that ruins the legacy, it's the piss poor writing that came off the back of ShB and EW. You can get rid of Wuk, but it won't matter if the writing behind everything is still dogwater.

Ironically, I actually think Wuk could be saved, but a competent writer that cares about the story, lore, and understands how to write characters needs to be at the helm. In a way, she reminds me of Ahsoka Tano. Everyone hated Ahsoka when the Clone Wars movie was released, but she slowly grew on everyone as her character was developed to becoming a fan favorite. But that appeal was earned, and was the result of a mostly planned arc Ahsoka went through.

Hiroi needs to be let go or tossed back into the sidequest rubber room where he can't do anymore serious damage and we need someone like Ishikawa guiding the story and characters.

[honest_psycho]

I'm not saying there aren't any problems. There definitely are. I'm saying you're looking at the wrong thing as the source of the problems.

And it doesn't matter if you think she's responsible for 99% or 75% or whatever. Either you think she's the main source or you don't. So which is it?

[StormChase]

Nice avoiding the question.

[Bellybell]

I'm not saying there aren't any problems. There definitely are. I'm saying you're looking at the wrong thing as the source of the problems.

And it doesn't matter if you think she's responsible for 99% or 75% or whatever. Either you think she's the main source or you don't. So which is it?

if correcting 1 single shit could potentially make the whole things at least to 'acceptable' level then. YES, that's the frikking main source of problems.

[Eyrilona]

if correcting 1 single shit could potentially make the whole things at least to 'acceptable' level then. YES, that's the frikking main source of problems.

That.. is not what those words mean. Did I really just read almost two entire pages of people arguing over the semantic difference between "the most obvious problem" and "the source of problems" ?!

[lolnotacat]

That.. is not what those words mean. Did I really just read almost two entire pages of people arguing over the semantic difference between "the most obvious problem" and "the source of problems" ?!

60% of arguments on the internet are over semantic squabbles.
30% are just trolling.
10% are arguments over made up statistics.