Wow, Wuk Lamat is really single-handedly ruining the DT story...

[sylphlands]

Valigarmanda shouldve been the main boss in DT instead of Sphene.

This was my wish as well. I would have loved for Vali to be a Nidhogg-like character with a real motive and personality. Vali should have caused us a lot more trouble than it did, but instead we defeated it like 20 minutes after first seeing it? So lackluster.

[Rin_Sato]

As someone mentioned, it's not a high stakes story. But it's a story where we help someone succeed who is trying her best and it just makes you feel good. And like stomping on the faces of everyone who was mean to her in the past.

"Not a high stakes story".

Did we play the same expansion?

[Serilyn]

"Not a high stakes story".

Did we play the same expansion?

I believe the person you're quoting from was talking about the alchemist/culinarian crafting quests for Dawntrail, not the MSQ (I know because its not specific out of context it looks like it could be referring to the MSQ, but it isn't). You'll find the rest of the conversation on page 291 with the bit you quoted spilling over to page 292.

[ReynTime]

I disagree that the final bad needs a motive and personality. Beasts/parasites with no real motive other than destruction and self preservation have worked as "villains" in numerous stories, including Chrono Trigger. Valigarmanda turned into a real growing continental threat would work perfectly for a story that's supposed to be about understanding the many different cultures within and then having every one of them need to work together against a threat that can't be reasoned with. That could have worked fine without rehashing Shadowbringers and Endwalker concepts.

[Carin-Eri]

I disagree that the final bad needs a motive and personality. Beasts/parasites with no real motive other than destruction and self preservation have worked as "villains" in numerous stories, including Chrono Trigger. Valigarmanda turned into a real growing continental threat would work perfectly for a story that's supposed to be about understanding the many different cultures within and then having every one of them need to work together against a threat that can't be reasoned with. That could have worked fine without rehashing Shadowbringers and Endwalker concepts.

Worked in FFXIV's story too. I mean, Primal Bahamut, one of the foundations for the game's story, had no personality or motive.

[Rin_Sato]

I believe the person you're quoting from was talking about the alchemist/culinarian crafting quests for Dawntrail, not the MSQ (I know because its not specific out of context it looks like it could be referring to the MSQ, but it isn't). You'll find the rest of the conversation on page 291 with the bit you quoted spilling over to page 292.

Thank you.

[ZXN]

-snip

I don't know what it is with the devs/writers just wanting to speedrun through as much as possible with minimal buildup recently, but it's really causing things to not remotely feel threatening like they should be to me personally. The final days for example are hyped up in Shadowbringers by Emet to be an event that brought the ancients to the brink of extinction. Meanwhile in Endwalker the final days only affected Thavnair and Garlemald and then it's over because we figure out at the end of zone 5 the cause of them and then nip it in the bud immediately in zone 6. Meteion was introduced in zone 5 as the "penultimate villain" of a 10-year story and then given only zones 5/6 and some cutscenes to convince players she deserved that title. [Whether or not she did is completely up to personal opinions.]

Valigarmanda suffered this same speedrun, just like many things in Dawntrail did. Valigarmanda was hyped up to be this monstrous creature in legends that even after fighting Gulool Ja Ja and his group for 10 days couldn't be slain by them, only being sealed away in a gradually weakening prison. He is finally released!...and then Wuk kills it with our help in about 15 minutes and we move right on.

v--Cringe "What-If? Below--v

They could've had Valigarmanda be the level 99 trial instead, where this time Zoraal Ja is the one to release him. We still kill Valigarmanda, but it's a short lived victory as it's essence is still lingering since Valigarmanda was extremely strong even by normal tural vidraal standards. Then have Zoraal Ja suddenly seal it away, similar to how the tural vidraal were sealed in the role quests, and then he flees. Fast-forward to the final zone: Zoraal Ja is the level 100 dungeon boss. We punch him in the face and he devours the souls. Now the level 100 trial starts as his trial form, and just like phase 1 of the trial, we beat him down fast because he has used so many souls his normal body just genuinely cannot take it. But he has one final trick up his sleeve and infuses himself with the essence of Valigarmada, essentially transforming into Shinryu 2.0 [The devs/writers pretty much made Zoraal Ja a piss-poor bootleg version of Zenos, so I'll just fully lean completely into the complete bootleg part] and then the actual level 100 trial fight starts. Yes this would require pretty much a complete overhaul of the story, hence the cringe, but given my own personal feelings about Dawntrail's story I'd happily take a complete re-write.

Yes, they do mention Valigarmanda was imprisoned for 80 years and also beaten down due to it's fight with Gulool Ja Ja, but that just seems like such a cop-out excuse when they could've absolutely done more then just release it and then IMMEDIATELY kill it off barely 15 minutes later before it does literally anything of value just to paint Wuk Lamat as a incredible hero of Tural.

[Eyrilona]

Valigarmanda was hyped up to be this monstrous creature in legends that even after fighting Gulool Ja Ja and his group for 10 days couldn't be slain by them, only being sealed away in a gradually weakening prison. He is finally released!...and then Wuk kills it with our help in about 15 minutes and we move right on.

The marketing for DT was a promise that we would face Valigarmanda as this legendary monster of truly epic proportions, so major they had to foreshadow it through the Sharlayan library episode in 6.55.. and then they give us a really underwhelming fight and the excuse that the legendary monster was now anemic, starved, out of shape, had a hernia, and I don't really care what else -- but the point is, as a player I do not care if they can make it make sense in the lore, I care that I was sold the promise of an epic confrontation for the ages and didn't get anything of the sort.

EDIT: Yoshi-P always telling us to "look forward to it" is starting to ring pretty hollow if something we are told is going to be special is instead served as a nothingburger even a few more times.

[Daralii]

The marketing for DT was a promise that we would face Valigarmanda as this legendary monster of truly epic proportions, so major they had to foreshadow it through the Sharlayan library episode in 6.55.. and then they give us a really underwhelming fight and the excuse that the legendary monster was now anemic, starved, out of shape, had a hernia, and I don't really care what else -- but the point is, as a player I do not care if they can make it make sense in the lore, I care that I was sold the promise of an epic confrontation for the ages and didn't get anything of the sort.

EDIT: Yoshi-P always telling us to "look forward to it" is starting to ring pretty hollow if something we are told is going to be special is instead served as a nothingburger even a few more times.

It's one of the things that makes me think something really weird happened behind the scenes fairly late in development. Wuk's characterization in 6.55(mainly the stuff around hunting) and the marketing would line up with Valigarmanda as at least a more notable threat, but I can't make up my mind on whether or not it's more likely that it was just a bait and switch because they knew the MSQ wasn't good(Yoshida said he "wasn't surprised" by the overall community sentiment in an interview) or if they had no confidence in their product, condensed the hell out of it, and threw in a mountain of FF9 memberberries and rehashed ShB/EW premises to try and save it.

[Eyrilona]

It's one of the things that makes me think something really weird happened behind the scenes fairly late in development. Wuk's characterization in 6.55(mainly the stuff around hunting) and the marketing would line up with Valigarmanda as at least a more notable threat, but I can't make up my mind on whether or not it's more likely that it was just a bait and switch because they knew the MSQ wasn't good(Yoshida said he "wasn't surprised" by the overall community sentiment in an interview) or if they had no confidence in their product, condensed the hell out of it, and threw in a mountain of FF9 memberberries and rehashed ShB/EW premises to try and save it.

And speaking of hunting, what of that enormous beast that Estinien hunts in the trailer? Only for Estinien to not even appear in that entire zone of the game, nor have any contact with the people there, and no trace of that beast or any part of the MSQ that even hints that going on a big game hunt might have been in the cards as part of the rites?