Picto makes the game less fun

[Galvuu]

Mao sad. Is PCTs just that much betters than BLMs?

Not really. In these fights PCT is still better than BLM, but it's not as awful as it was before the buffs.
It'll feel worse if you get some trash mechanic combos, like Wicked Thunder spamming the dumb water knockback.
But God it feels awful to play. If these idiots at CBU3 at least let you preserve the Astral Hearts through UI... that reopener before the transition is god-awful.

Snip.

Why are you trying to divine the reasoning of job changes in this game? There's none. They don't know what they're doing- even in the rare case where they make a plan, their actions run counter to that plan.
Tbh BLM damage isn't even that bad. But it feels awful to play in some situations (like that 4S reopener). It's just changes done by people who didn't understand the job before and don't play it now.
I got bored of PCT and have been playing some BLM, but God, my hatred for Flare Star deepens every passing day. What a god-awful ability, completely throws a wrench into the flow of the job. Jesus Christ, I've always known it was bad, but it's bad.

Therefore, it is logical that it's the buffless or "selfish" jobs leading the nDPS charts, as they should. Do note that the sentence of mine that you are quoting explicitly says that PCT is higher than the majority of melees at the different metrics, meaning that it's higher rDPS-wise than all of them but it obviously won't be higher aDPS-wise than SAM, VPR or BLM. In that sense, I do further clarify later on that PCT is right after these jobs in the aDPS charts, meaning that it's above MNK, RPR, DRG and NIN.
(...)
As I already said, we could argue that the differences are small enough not to matter, and that would be just fine, but I still believe that if PCT is to have higher aDPS than jobs with less personal damage such as NIN, then its rDPS should be a bit lower than theirs. I don't think it's healthy for game balance to repeat situations such as SAM in ShB or BLM in the later parts of EW. On the other hand, it could be argued that as long as any job can clear the content, these difference don't matter too much.
(...)
PCT is balanced around doing no damage for a specific amount of seconds while casting motifs. Any amount of downtime that reduces this no-damage period during uptime phases will hugely benefit the job. Yes, other jobs can recharge their CDs such as NIN's mudras but those are not balanced around doing zero damage for specific periods like PCT is.
(...)
In conclusion, I don't think PCT should be nerfed. I do believe it could be adjusted by moving some damage from burst into filler to avoid the potential balance problems in Ultimates or other relevant content when downtime is involved while keeping the overall full uptime damage the same. Additionally, I don't think the job should lose its utility or defensive capabilities either. If anything, what other jobs have should be reevaluated without falling into the homogenization pitfall.

I don't care a lot about this back and forth (although I lean more into agreeing with the other poster, Aco), but I think you have this part specifically backwards.
Having powerful adps jobs with a flatter damage curve (BLM/VPR) and a burstier one (SAM/PCT) is a good thing. These mechanics give the jobs identity. If this breaks balance, then the core, background issue is this 2 minute meta garbage and the multiplicative nature of raid buffs. There are many ways to address this- make some jobs free-form or make them adhere to different clocks (like 90s jobs), make raid buffs additive and not multiplicative, blanket nerf all buffs and provide compensatory potency buffs, diversify buffs (rip old Selene haste buff), etc. PCT is like a canary in the coal mine for an issue that's been getting exacerbated since ShB. This is why every job is a buffer/spender, because anything else (different clocks, more flat power curves) doesn't work with this 2 minute trash. I'd rather see that problem get addressed. Even if we did what you're proposing, you're just gonna get SAM as the biggest benefactor of the buffs next. This isn't going to help BLM at all. Do we kneecap SAM burst next? It's already tied for highest adps as we speak.

Like people are discussing surface-level solutions for a deeper problem this game has been brewing for a while. In a better version of the game (cough HW cough) this kind of design, with some jobs being bursty, some being flat in their dps curve and whatnot works. We just streamlined this game to a point where any deviation from their norm causes problems. I don't know. It's not like they're going to fix anything.

[Aco505]

I don't care a lot about this back and forth (although I lean more into agreeing with the other poster, Aco), but I think you have this part specifically backwards.
Having powerful adps jobs with a flatter damage curve (BLM/VPR) and a burstier one (SAM/PCT) is a good thing. These mechanics give the jobs identity. If this breaks balance, then the core, background issue is this 2 minute meta garbage and the multiplicative nature of raid buffs. There are many ways to address this- make some jobs free-form or make them adhere to different clocks (like 90s jobs), make raid buffs additive and not multiplicative, blanket nerf all buffs and provide compensatory potency buffs, diversify buffs (rip old Selene haste buff), etc. PCT is like a canary in the coal mine for an issue that's been getting exacerbated since ShB. This is why every job is a buffer/spender, because anything else (different clocks, more flat power curves) doesn't work with this 2 minute trash. I'd rather see that problem get addressed. Even if we did what you're proposing, you're just gonna get SAM as the biggest benefactor of the buffs next. This isn't going to help BLM at all. Do we kneecap SAM burst next? It's already tied for highest adps as we speak.

Like people are discussing surface-level solutions for a deeper problem this game has been brewing for a while. In a better version of the game (cough HW cough) this kind of design, with some jobs being bursty, some being flat in their dps curve and whatnot works. We just streamlined this game to a point where any deviation from their norm causes problems. I don't know. It's not like they're going to fix anything.

The reason why I used that specific example was simply to illustrate my point. I do agree with you: there should be different damage profiles for the jobs. The "problem" is that BLM didn't "fit" it as well as other jobs because it was one of the few ones that didn't fully adhere to the 2-minute meta. It's fine if PCT's aDPS is higher than RPR because the latter's burst takes longer or is flatter, as you say, as long as it's balanced.

Jobs like WAR or SMN (more in EW than now) are mostly 1-minute jobs, which we should have more of. They still have their buffs or biggest peaks at 2-minutes but the difference isn't that stark. Yes, in an ideal world, there would be different damage profiles and, perhaps, more common "niches" like 2-target fights or fights with adds similar to EX1. On the other hand, those niches can also become "unbalanced" in a game that "only" provides 12-15 Savage fights, 2 Ultimates, and 3 Criterion dungeons per expansion.

I don't want jobs to be homogenized but I also don't want a specific job to dominate in different aspects. If PCT has the best burst in the game and so benefits the most from buffs, then that's great. In EW, NIN's 2-minute burst was equal or even slightly better than SAM's until the latter was buffed. Imho, NIN should've kept the strongest burst back then considering that's all it had.

Surely the state of jobs will be addressed when 8.0 comes out, right?

[Carighan]

Of course Picto is better than BLM.

Picto is essentially the job stone you get once you levelled the base class (BLM) far enough. You're finally done playing the drudgery that is Black Mage, you can play the glorious pew pew powaaaah that is Picto.

Kupo!

[Eraden]

Of course Picto is better than BLM.

Picto is essentially the job stone you get once you levelled the base class (BLM) far enough. You're finally done playing the drudgery that is Black Mage, you can play the glorious pew pew powaaaah that is Picto.

Kupo!

Mao is just gonna go hide in Mao lair and cry little bits....

[LilimoLimomo]

Mao sad. Is PCTs just that much betters than BLMs?

To say that PCT is "better" than BLM oversimplifies the issue. From the data I've seen, it seems to be understood that at present, PCT has more damage potential than BLM, or at the very least PCT offers a simpler path to access high damage relative to BLM, meaning that statistically your average player will do more damage with PCT.

But whether PCT is "better" than BLM depends on what you want out of your class. If all you want is high damage and you want it as easily as possible, then yeah, in that case, PCT is probably the better choice. But if you prioritize how much fun you're having and PCT doesn't engage you in the same way that BLM does, then their difference in damage output isn't going to meaningfully move the needle as long as both classes are viable.

It should come as no surprise that most players will chase big numbers and an easier win; keep that in mind when considering statistics on which classes are used to clear content. I don't think there's anything bad about being that kind of player, but remember that you don't have to be that kind of player if you don't want to be.

For my personal tastes, I just wanna play BLM. At the end of the day, I'd still play BLM if I was doing half the damage of a PCT, because the joy I get from playing content is inextricably tied to the experience of playing the class I enjoy. FF14 is a leisure activity that I play so that I can enjoy myself, so I'm going to play in the way that makes me the most happy. And that means playing BLM, because I love BLM.

Mao should chase what makes Mao happy.

[Eraden]

To say that PCT is "better" than BLM oversimplifies the issue. From the data I've seen, it seems to be understood that at present, PCT has more damage potential than BLM, or at the very least PCT offers a simpler path to access high damage relative to BLM, meaning that statistically your average player will do more damage with PCT.

But whether PCT is "better" than BLM depends on what you want out of your class. If all you want is high damage and you want it as easily as possible, then yeah, in that case, PCT is probably the better choice. But if you prioritize how much fun you're having and PCT doesn't engage you in the same way that BLM does, then their difference in damage output isn't going to meaningfully move the needle as long as both classes are viable.

It should come as no surprise that most players will chase big numbers and an easier win; keep that in mind when considering statistics on which classes are used to clear content. I don't think there's anything bad about being that kind of player, but remember that you don't have to be that kind of player if you don't want to be.

For my personal tastes, I just wanna play BLM. At the end of the day, I'd still play BLM if I was doing half the damage of a PCT, because the joy I get from playing content is inextricably tied to the experience of playing the class I enjoy. FF14 is a leisure activity that I play so that I can enjoy myself, so I'm going to play in the way that makes me the most happy. And that means playing BLM, because I love BLM.

Mao should chase what makes Mao happy.

Mao liked EW BLMs buts then Devs changed BLMs in DT and makes job more clunky. If job was backs to EW BLMs then Mao wouldn't mind so much nots doing as much DPS as PCTs.

[Carighan]

I think when I jokingly say that "of course Picto is better" is that you can notice how Picto is one of the newest jobs in the game, and has a huge mechanical headstart in that by now the devs have finally understood that just having 20-30 buttons means nothing if there is 0 depth in the combat gameply and hence you might as well have auto-combos for them. Less RSI, same mental involvement.

Meanwhile BLM is one of the oldest jobs in the game, which also got evolved by simply stapling more and more stuff onto it each expansion on an extremely outdated core. It's useful, but also you can feel retro feeling, constantly. So we're comparing a pure-DPS job that is utterly outdated in design and also heavily overloaded with ideas while each individual one is severly undercooked to a job that has some utility, equally hits hard, but is also super modern, refreshingly flexible and allows you to focus on the gameplay over the UI and hotbars. It's an unfair comparison, in particular because both Red Mage and Summoner have evolved since then, while Black Mage only gut further bogged down.

[Mondodo]

I agree with the sentiment above as a newer player to the game who has played all of the disciple of magic jobs. RDM, SMN and now PCT feel very smooth to play with chances to make clever uses of my utility and optimising aligning ability cooldowns. BLM meanwhile felt ok at first, the niche was MP management and being less mobile than the others, doing big damage if I get to sit in my leylines and cast with a big hitter I'd use at low MP before going ice phase, that was good. Then fire IV arrived and as more abilities and moving dials joined the rotation it was hurting my eyes staring at the umbral ice/fire/xenoglossy gauge and my action bars. I don't think PCT is making the game less fun, in fact it's so much fun it reveals glaring problems in the design of older jobs. I think that BLM needs to have contingencies so it doesn't drop off in damage at different points in modern fights or the pay off should be absolutely fantastic for all the work the BLM goes through to do good rotations rather than whatever flare star is meant to be because right now the old design just can't keep up.

[Carighan]

To say that PCT is "better" than BLM oversimplifies the issue. From the data I've seen, it seems to be understood that at present, PCT has more damage potential than BLM, or at the very least PCT offers a simpler path to access high damage relative to BLM, meaning that statistically your average player will do more damage with PCT.

I'd also go a step further: BLM feels so outdated in core gameplay, even at a significant damage advantage, you would have a reasonable cause calling Picto "better". It's just a complex word. You could even find plenty players that factually do more damage with Picto in such a senario than Black Mage, akin to how now there are plenty players who genuinely do more damage with Summoner than Black Mage in the same gear. There's a reason we tell people to play what they're comfortable with, higher effective output.

And Picto feels a lot more modern in combat flow than other jobs, so naturally it will appeal to caster players a lot more.

[Ramiee]

PCT is a burst job designed from the ground up BLM is a sustained damage job forced to burst. BLM only feels outdated because CBU3 decided every job should be a burst job.