The death of savage raiding and SE's lack of action

[Sensui]

Can someone define "engaging" and explain how all the other roles have it and healer doesn't?

[GartredZW]

Can someone define "engaging" and explain how all the other roles have it and healer doesn't?

go on a striking dummy and compare an optimal rotation for any DPS or Tank class to Healer.
everything else has an actual rotation that takes practice to master. Healers just have the one button with a dot to use once every 12 GCDs.
Essentially, it's something to actually draw the player in, and keep them from falling asleep at the wheel. I think that's actually why you see so many bad healers lately.

The actual healing part of playing healer is all over the place. During progression, it ranges from annoying to boring. Either you're constantly babysitting the DPS who just can't stay out of danger puddles, or you're just spamming Glare waiting for the next raid wide or tank buster to require you to press something else.

I've heard a few other people say this, but after a while, I've started just convincing myself that I'm doing something meaningful. Place down a sacred soil, and now instead of everyone surviving a raid wide at 50%, they all survive at 55%. and I say to myself "Perfect. My contribution was the difference between life and death. I'll need to plan around the next raid wide with a Fey Illumination, or perhaps a Deployed crit-Adlo" even though I know that I can get away with just spamming Fey Blessing, Indom, and Excog if it's going to a tank.

The only optimization we have with healing is doing as little as humanly possible. That's the only way to make it fun and give some spark of life to it. That's why you see healers not doing any healing. 90% of the time, the game doesn't require GCD healing, so it's just seen as expected that they don't need to, or that they can just make it work without it. It's because most of the time they're right. And then once you get good enough to not heal, you realize that you're still just spamming one button the whole time.

[Sensui]

Even stacking all your MIT available from both Healers at that moment (mind you two back to back mechanics have already exhausted some before it), you are not clearing Harrowing Hell with no GCD heals and no tank LB. Same thing can be said for M4S P2 opening currently.

As someone who mains mitigation healers in PF, generally I don't expect any mitigation from any DPS or Tank (in terms of Reprisal, Dark Missionary etc) as they get missed for different AoEs at random. I just focus on putting up a succor alongside any other oGCD mitigation I have and boom 9 out of 10 AoEs you can survive. Now realistically, some other mits can show up but I don't depend on them in PF. My entire kit is utilized on the regular.

Nothing changes the fact that the moment there is a definitive heal check people call for tank LB (doesn't even have to be a Lv3 LB) because it is the path of least resistance ultimately compared to depending on both healers having both all of their mit options and the willingness to GCD heal.

To be honest, I think this boils down to trust in healer ability in PF. I can't count how many times I'm throwing out mitts and self defense abilities only to watch the party still wipe because of lack of shields from the healers.

Static tactics aside.. if it means clearing, you do what works. Also, the 1% DPS LB likely won't be missed.

[Sensui]

go on a striking dummy and compare an optimal rotation for any DPS or Tank class to Healer.
everything else has an actual rotation that takes practice to master. Healers just have the one button with a dot to use once every 12 GCDs.
Essentially, it's something to actually draw the player in, and keep them from falling asleep at the wheel. I think that's actually why you see so many bad healers lately.

The actual healing part of playing healer is all over the place. During progression, it ranges from annoying to boring. Either you're constantly babysitting the DPS who just can't stay out of danger puddles, or you're just spamming Glare waiting for the next raid wide or tank buster to require you to press something else.

I've heard a few other people say this, but after a while, I've started just convincing myself that I'm doing something meaningful. Place down a sacred soil, and now instead of everyone surviving a raid wide at 50%, they all survive at 55%. and I say to myself "Perfect. My contribution was the difference between life and death. I'll need to plan around the next raid wide with a Fey Illumination, or perhaps a Deployed crit-Adlo" even though I know that I can get away with just spamming Fey Blessing, Indom, and Excog if it's going to a tank.

The only optimization we have with healing is doing as little as humanly possible. That's the only way to make it fun and give some spark of life to it. That's why you see healers not doing any healing. 90% of the time, the game doesn't require GCD healing, so it's just seen as expected that they don't need to, or that they can just make it work without it. It's because most of the time they're right. And then once you get good enough to not heal, you realize that you're still just spamming one button the whole time.

I've partied with some amazing healers. AST that hit me with perfect timed buffs, shields that mit 100% damage. Its a joy and makes the experience wo much better for everyone.

I get the feeling they're enjoying themselves when they push to be the best healer they can be VERSUS someone spamming their dps button and not pushing themselves. There is a huge skill difference. I get being bored if that's you.

When I play SGE I make a game to mitigate everything I can. Not let everyone dip to almost dead then react. Makes a difference in how I enjoy myself.

[Havenchild]

To be honest, I think this boils down to trust in healer ability in PF. I can't count how many times I'm throwing out mitts and self defense abilities only to watch the party still wipe because of lack of shields from the healers.

Static tactics aside.. if it means clearing, you do what works. Also, the 1% DPS LB likely won't be missed.

Absolutely. PF optimizes for the path of least resistance, whether that's via LB usage or overall strategy used for mechanics. Whatever is the most reliable option for clears is the option that is favored. What you explained, is the AVERAGE if not the majority of happenings in PF.

This is how you know for sure the complainers largely don't engage with PF on reclears because increasing things like DPS would create two major issues.

1) Healer responsibility (and the overall party responsibility) goes up in the form of raid dps requirements, thus now requiring healers to press even more buttons to maintain their raid DPS contribution.
2) It will make raids even MORE unstable then now because it will reinforce a DPS mindset for Healer role while simultaneously admonishing the people that enjoy Healing on the job as is.

[SieyaM]

So one piece of content is experiencing a shortage of one role and now we need to restructure the entire game to please them? Tell me again how raiders don't feel like they own the game and everyone else is just allowed to play it.

[Sensui]

Absolutely. PF optimizes for the path of least resistance, whether that's via LB usage or overall strategy used for mechanics. Whatever is the most reliable option for clears is the option that is favored. What you explained, is the AVERAGE if not the majority of happenings in PF.

This is how you know for sure the complainers largely don't engage with PF on reclears because increasing things like DPS would create two major issues.

1) Healer responsibility (and the overall party responsibility) goes up in the form of raid dps requirements, thus now requiring healers to press even more buttons to maintain their raid DPS contribution.
2) It will make raids even MORE unstable then now because it will reinforce a DPS mindset for Healer role while simultaneously admonishing the people that enjoy Healing on the job as is.

A ton of people use PF to learn. So many are not PF exclusive. Would not surprise me if this is why so many healers are mostly in learning parties but not reclear. I think we're on to something here.

[Maltothoris]

I have been in pf reclear parties and it's still boring. Fights are too scripted and too predictable in both the timelines and damage.

[Sensui]

I have been in pf reclear parties and it's still boring. Fights are too scripted and too predictable in both the timelines and damage.

It's no different for DPS or tanks. That's the game battle design. That's the point of optimization mini game. I think it boils down to people just not enjoying the game. Might not be for you. Myself I find ways to have fun.

[Maltothoris]

Well thing is, they've lowered the amount of both tankbusters, a fight like o4s has 17 tankbusters while here m4s has 7 in total over the same timeframe.

Edit: Either way, at this point, you're not gonna convince me and I won't convince you.