Sena Bryer is right: the hatred that Smile gets is highly problematic

[lucatracy]

I think both you and Sena need to go to your nearest black-owned church and apologize for even thinking this comparison was appropriate, it's borderline offensive if anything. The main vocalist and choir were just terrible, the terrible mixing (which is usually very easy for me to ignore, given I'm not that knowledgeable at actually making music), horrible usage in the msq... I wish I could say they should've hired an actual gospel singer as their lead instead whatever Akino was trying to be here, if that's really what they were going for, but that's only fixing 1/4th of the problems here.

[Losado]

I think both you and Sena need to go to your nearest black-owned church and apologize for even thinking this comparison was appropriate, it's borderline offensive if anything. The main vocalist and choir were just terrible, the terrible mixing (which is usually very easy for me to ignore, given I'm not that knowledgeable at actually making music), horrible usage in the msq... I wish I could say they should've hired an actual gospel singer as their lead instead whatever Akino was trying to be here, if that's really what they were going for, but that's only fixing 1/4th of the problems here.

It is a tribute to black culture and black history. How is it offensive? Curious to hear your perspective as long as it is not transphobic.

[Loggos]

It's literally the worst song i have ever heard in my entire life.
The vocal performance was horrific.

I was really thrown off when I heard it the first time because the vocals sounded so weak and were often out of tune. It really confused me because in terms of quality it was nothing like Flow, Close in the Distance, Tomorrow and Tomorrow, or Dragonsong so I have a hard time understanding how this artistic decision was made. (Or Footfalls, Scream, In the Balance, Dedicated to Moonlight, or Hic svnt Leones.) Normally FF14 is really good with its vocalised songs. The performance of Smile felt like an uncharacteristic outlier.
I wonder if this was another instance of a rushed product or if I'm really out of touch with Soken's musical vision here...

And if it is his vision....how did we go from the aforementioned examples, all displays of artistic craftmanship and a high understanding of composition, complexity, and musical theory, to, well,...this...

It is a tribute to black culture and black history. How is it offensive? Curious to hear your perspective as long as it is not transphobic.

Because that it is a dedicated, actively intended tribute to Black culture in particular is a theory you and Sena are merely postulating but have no proof for.
(And even if it was, then as explained below this does not mean people dislike it for racist reasons because the actual reasons people cite have nothing to do with what you claim. See below. Or the rest of this thread. Also...if it is a tribute then...they didn't do their best job...)

There is also another option: That it is supposed to be a Disney-esque musical song that features one element (a choir) that is also found in Black Gospel (but not exclusively). That one element doesn't make it a song representing Black culture.
There are many other musical elements in there and reducing the song to the choir part to then claim people hate it because of the choir part and therefore hate an element of Black music is a deliberately constructed attempt to push your own narrative and to create controversy by distorting why people actually reject the song (which people have explained many times already): The low production quality and the placement of the song within the story. The context. When and why it is used. Nothing to do with the choir itself.

The artistic choice of using the song at the end and during the train scene (and at the Dawnservant coronation? I don't remember anymore) felt unearned, unsatisfying and not in line with the story experience. The song is supposed to elicit emotions in its audience that many people don't actually feel. So for many it becomes an attempt to enforce those emotions, making them feel undeserved.
It's the shallow sappiness and the effort of forcefully trying to hammer a "message" home and imbuing those scenes with emotional colourations that don't align with many players' experience that is the issue here.
I am quite certain that many people would have felt the same way if you removed the elements postulated as Black culture by you and Sena, and replaced the song with your generic Disney and/or musical song.

We can have an indepth discussion about the contribution of Black artists to Western music culture and how they have been appropriated and made invisible on a broader scale on a different occasion.
But that does not mean that on the flipside an element that can historically be traced back to a certain musical practice (and which often has undergone many cultural changes in the process) can only ever be disliked for racist reasons.

Is every person disliking rock music a racist now even though it was pioneered by Black musicians?
What about jazz?
Sometimes people just don't like certain sound combinations like experimental (dis)harmonies or heavy guitars.

Upbeat choirs have become a music staple used far beyond Gospel at this point. And choirs that are very distictively Gospel sound different from what we hear in Smile (they sound good as opposed to Smile ;D). Smile's choir is a general upbeat choir in my opinion. Upbeat choirs may very well have their historical origin in Gospel but due to the very frequent employment of this mucisal element in all kind of other mainstream pop and score music (cinema/musicals/video games) the cultural and musical association of "(upbeat/modern) choir" has broadened significantly. No matter how you feel about it, "(upbeat/modern) choir" as a musical tool has become universalised at this point and is therefore also perceived (and judged) as such by many.)


So in the context of Smile, it is clear that most people's primary association is not "aha Black music!" but "Disney/musical" (which again goes far beyond the inclusion of choirs in terms of musical composition) and people disliking songs from the genre "Disney/Musical" can do so for a myriad of reasons without it being caused by any explicit or implicit bias against Black music.
Then if you add the story-specific context of why and when it was used in the not-so hit expansion Dawntrail from the MMORPG FF14 as explained above as a primary reason for many people not being too happy about the song you really have no case to argue that it's a racist rejection because of a potential association with Gospel music instead.

It's not that deep. The song was misplaced because many players probably didn't feel like Frozen or Starlight Express fit too well into FF14, esp. given the story we were served.

[Venks]

It is a tribute to black culture and black history. How is it offensive? Curious to hear your perspective as long as it is not transphobic.

I'm not the person you were replying to, but I personally find it offensive. Because it isn't black gospel, more people should listen to real black gospel and then compare it to Smile. Or at the very least go ask your black friends, they might be willing to educate if they have the patience and grace.

That said the hate on Smile is overblown. It's not exactly my cup of tea and some of the audio mixing could be improved, but it is not a bad song. I'm actually quite a fan of the lyrics, I think they fit the themes of Dawntrail very nicely. But again, it is not Black Gospel and it is offensive to claim it is. I assume the misunderstanding mostly comes from a place of ignorance.

[Nebelheim]

It is a tribute to black culture and black history. How is it offensive? Curious to hear your perspective as long as it is not transphobic.

You and sena should study music theory some more because smiles isn't black gospel and in no way inspired by black gospel. It's a Disney style song trying to sound like a gospel song but it's far from gospel.

[Bananarama]

Kanye West's Donda is more black gospel(as S*na puts it) than Smile could ever begin to be.

[ZXN]

It is a tribute to black culture and black history. How is it offensive? Curious to hear your perspective as long as it is not transphobic.

Because it might not be a tribute to black culture and black history. You could definitely make the argument it is gospel music, or gospel inspired...but don't you think it's a liiiiittle weird to declare smile is specifically black gospel? Don't you think it's just a liiiitle bit weird to listen to a song and then declare "Oh yeah, I'm definitely getting black people vibes with this song i'm hearing."? There was no need for Sena to label it as such when she could've just said it was gospel or gospel inspired. She is allowed to personally believe it is it is "black" gospel music, But then following that up by insinuating that people who dislike the song are in that "certain group of gamers" is just gaslighting for no reason. I hate the song Smile. Didn't know that makes me racist against black people suddenly.

And don't hit me with the: "If YoU'rE nOt ReAlLy RaCiSt ThEn WhY dO yOu CaRe WhAt SeNa SaId ReGaRdInG iT?" Because there was no reason FOR Sena to say it. She could've said that she was sad that people didn't like Smile as much as she did and to just give it a few listens by itself to give it another shot. I did just that, and I still hate Smile, if more because of the baffling ways they used it in-game, like using it while we're building a fucking bomb for example. She could've said that even if people didn't like the song, they shouldn't be clowning on AKINO by telling her she's a terrible singer or she needs to get replaced and to respect the effort she did put into the song even if didn't tun out as expected. AKINO sounded great when she did Scream, so she definitely isn't a terrible singer. However, Smile didn't really seem to fit AKINO's singing style nor her vocal range, so it made the entire song feel off. Sena could've said anything along those lines...

INSTEAD though, Sena chose to tweet this, word for word-

Smile is straight up Black Gospel music, and the fact that it's getting a lot of hate from "certain sections" of gamers? Probably not a coincidence

Then after she got some push-back, decides to follow it up with this, also word for word-

Weird how so many people are getting defensive in response to this instead of just going "ah, she's not talking about me though".

This is absolutely kicking the hornet's nest and gaslighting players on purpose, and it is asinine to imply ANYONE / EVERYONE who spoke up about it to explain their stance on why they didn't like the song actually just "read what she wrote wrong" and as a result, just "Self-reported" themselves as a bigot.

[lucatracy]

It is a tribute to black culture and black history. How is it offensive? Curious to hear your perspective as long as it is not transphobic.

By offensive I don't mean inherently racist/against black culture, I meant offensive in the sense that if you actually go into the spaces of the people you're trying to stick up for here and claim that this is "straight up" their music, they would most definitely not appreciate it, to put it kindly. If you actually read the replies and quotes of the tweet, you can even see a good amount of her own fans/people that are just neutral about her pointing out how odd of a comparison it is.

Even if you both ARE correct, then that also puts alot of blame on Yoship and Soken, for claiming that cultural accuracy was so important yet releasing what sounds like a parody of said culture as one of the expac's main theme songs. But sorry to be the bearer of bad news, a voice actor making claims on an area of the game they have no involvement in does not make it inherently correct.

[Mortex]

It is a tribute to black culture and black history. How is it offensive? Curious to hear your perspective as long as it is not transphobic.

We’re did you get this information???? Because searching the web for this information I found nothing but void and emptiness. If you say it’s a tribute to black culture and black history just because it sounds mildly like black gospel then you my good sir need too check if you aren’t a racist in this situation. Any good gospel band doesn’t matter black or white would cringe about people saying this is a gospel song. It’s a abomination that leans into the area of gospel and nothing more.

[Zakuyia]

You know me eating popcorn wuth cid garlean and Nero as we laugh at some of these post. Like really black gospel or not smile is still trash but whats more trash are ppl who think its transphobic, racist, bigotry to hate something.

Like ppl....come on.... so your not allowed to like something or even hate it. Yeah that sounds like a bunch of disillusioned ppl who feel the need to be controlling, theres a name for ppl like that its ummm narcissistic. Chill out with the hate. Plus if smile is black gospel even more reason for me to not like it. I don't like gospel music of any kind nor do I like country, rap, hip-hop, r&b....surprise I have genre of music I don't like guess that make me racist I guess...

Anyway chill it with the transphobic crap and calling ppl racist. Its just a game. You clowns (you know who u are.) Need to chill out or unsub cause we don't need unhinged wol like you trying to save the world you probably burn it down cause ppl don't like you....

Peace guys remember music comes in all flavors if you don't like genre of music your probably racist, bigot, transphobic and any other buzzword that means u are (insert insult for not liking said genre of music).